An atheist holiday

[Guisslapp]

Excuse me if this has been said already, because I did not go back and read ALL post in this thread. Of the first few pages I did read I noticed that out resident athiest use the argument "there is no proof God exisit", but I offer you this as a retort "there is no evidence he does not exist either." You choose not to believe because you have no evidence, I choose TO believe because there is no evidence. That is what faith is; "confident belief or trust in a person, idea, or thing." Faith is a blind leap, a trust in the unknown. I will continue to believe unless hard, incontrivertable facts can prove that God does not exist, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Can anyone on this board prove that there is no God?

It is called scotoma. The mind sees what it wants to see. Your minds chooses not to see the evidence for the Lord. Mine chooses not to see the evidence for the theory of evolution.

LOL. What fact of existence could you ever point to prove something does not exist? How could you prove that there is not an invisible massless gremlin dancing around you right now? How could you prove with incontrivertable facts that Bigfoot does not exist? Or that Tiger Woods was not involved an orgy with 15 unnamed women at an undisclosed place at an undisclosed time?

There are plenty of good reasons not to believe in the existence of a god, but "faith" in hypothetical, arbitrary ideas will always subject what you "know" to the subjective preferences of your whim. At least you acknowledge that.

[Spinoza]

LOL. What fact of existence could you ever point to prove something does not exist? How could you prove that there is not an invisible massless gremlin dancing around you right now? How could you prove with incontrivertable facts that Bigfoot does not exist? Or that Tiger Woods was not involved an orgy with 15 unnamed women at an undisclosed place at an undisclosed time?

There are plenty of good reasons not to believe in the existence of a god, but "faith" in hypothetical, arbitrary ideas will always subject what you "know" to the subjective preferences of your whim. At least you acknowledge that.

May I, Gus......

What fact of evidence could Y O U ever point to, to prove GOD does not exist?
How could Y O U prove that there is not an invisible massless GOD dancing around Y O U right now?
How could Y O U prove with incontrivertable facts that GOD does not exist?
Or that GOD was not involved in an orgy with 15 unnamed womed at an undisclosed place, at an indisclosed time?

There are plenty of good reasons not to believe in the existence of a GOD, but "certainty" in hypothetical, arbitrary ideas will always subject what you "know" to the subjective preferences of your whim.
Would you care to acknowledge the above?

Cheers.

[BLUE collar]

LOL. What fact of existence could you ever point to prove something does not exist? How could you prove that there is not an invisible massless gremlin dancing around you right now? How could you prove with incontrivertable facts that Bigfoot does not exist? Or that Tiger Woods was not involved an orgy with 15 unnamed women at an undisclosed place at an undisclosed time?

There are plenty of good reasons not to believe in the existence of a god, but "faith" in hypothetical, arbitrary ideas will always subject what you "know" to the subjective preferences of your whim. At least you acknowledge that.

Exactly my point. You cannot prove that there isn't a God. Care to share your reasons not to believe? Have any of your ideas or reasons been proven 100%? Or are they just theories?

[Guisslapp]

Exactly my point. You cannot prove that there isn't a God. Care to share your reasons not to believe? Have any of your ideas or reasons been proven 100%? Or are they just theories?

Did you read my post? It is logically impossible to prove something doesn't exist. Nonexistent things do not produce incontrovertible facts or evidence. Surely, the fact that something cannot be proven does not exist cannot be a reason to believe it does exist.

There are plenty of good reasons not to believe. Perhaps, the best reason is that there is no evidence that a god does exist. The second best reason, IMO, is that it is philosophically unsound to believe that consciousness could precede existence. If you believe evolution contradicts a creator god, then that is another thing, because, it can and has been proven. In the end god has always been used to explain that which we do not currently understand, as the unknown gets figured out, the idea of god looks more and more primitive.

[BLUE collar]

Did you read my post? It is logically impossible to prove something doesn't exist. Nonexistent things do not produce incontrovertible facts or evidence. Surely, the fact that something cannot be proven does not exist cannot be a reason to believe it does exist.

There are plenty of good reasons not to believe. Perhaps, the best reason is that there is no evidence that a god does exist. The second best reason, IMO, is that it is philosophically unsound to believe that consciousness could precede existence. If you believe evolution contradicts a creator god, then that is another thing, because, it can and has been proven. In the end god has always been used to explain that which we do not currently understand, as the unknown gets figured out, the idea of god looks more and more primitive.

I did read your post and then I posted nothing to the contrary. However, evolution has not been proven, it is just a theory. There are alot of gaps in that theory that Darwinist are simply filling in with their own ideas or "beliefs." How can anything be philosophically unsound? Philosphy means SPECULATIVE inquiry of the source and nature of human knowledge. It is all speculation, so how do you prove that it is unsound to believe that consciousness could precede existence? Now as I stated before, your mind sees what it wants to see. You may see a scientific proof as it appears on the surface, thus making "the idea of god look[ing] more and more primitive." I choose to see beneath the surface and say, well the fact that it is proven tells me that God has allowed his miracle to be seen.

[mentechsters]

Did you read my post? It is logically impossible to prove something doesn't exist. Nonexistent things do not produce incontrovertible facts or evidence. Surely, the fact that something cannot be proven does not exist cannot be a reason to believe it does exist.

There are plenty of good reasons not to believe. Perhaps, the best reason is that there is no evidence that a god does exist. The second best reason, IMO, is that it is philosophically unsound to believe that consciousness could precede existence. If you believe evolution contradicts a creator god, then that is another thing, because, it can and has been proven. In the end god has always been used to explain that which we do not currently understand, as the unknown gets figured out, the idea of god looks more and more primitive.

Guiss, simple question. Do you celebrate Christmas?

[Guisslapp]

Guiss, simple question. Do you celebrate Christmas?

I take off time from work and spend it with my family on the 24th-25th. We exchange gifts. If that is what you mean "celebrate Christmas", then yes. For me, it is completely secular, even if it is more than that to some people I am visiting.

[BLUE collar]

I take off time from work and spend it with my family on the 24th-25th. We exchange gifts. If that is what you mean "celebrate Christmas", then yes. For me, it is completely secular, even if it is more than that to some people I am visiting.

Why do you choose to exchange gifts? Why on this date?

[Guisslapp]

Why do you choose to exchange gifts? Why on this date?

Tradition, and it is a nice thing to do. It is hard to take time away from work to see my family except for on traditional holidays. 2400 working hours a year (not counting time at work not working, e.g., making this post) does not leave alot of opportunity for non-work travel.

[BLUE collar]

Tradition, and it is a nice thing to do. It is hard to take time away from work to see my family except for on traditional holidays. 2400 working hours a year (not counting time at work not working, e.g., making this post) does not leave alot of opportunity for non-work travel.

Where does the tradition stem from? Perhaps the story of the Three Wise Men bringing gifts to the baby Jesus? I don't pretend to know your work or family arangement, but that would still leave you with an estimated 9 hours free time a day in which you were not sleeping. Sounds like a poor argument as to why you celebrate at this time. Now you have April 1st as an Athiest holiday, perhaps you should exchange your gifts then and stop crowding up our malls around this time.

[Guisslapp]

Where does the tradition stem from? Perhaps the story of the Three Wise Men bringing gifts to the baby Jesus? I don't pretend to know your work or family arangement, but that would still leave you with an estimated 9 hours free time a day in which you were not sleeping. Sounds like a poor argument as to why you celebrate at this time. Now you have April 1st as an Athiest holiday, perhaps you should exchange your gifts then and stop crowding up our malls around this time.

The vast majority of Christmas traditions stem from paganism not Christianity. What difference does it make to you if choose to participate in secular gift-giving and time with the family? Does that cause my Atheist card to get revoked? My family is off during this time, most of the people at my office are off at that time, most of my clients are not trying to get me to do things for them at that time, and it falls at the end of the year when I know exactly how much time I can afford to take off and still hit my hours. It is the most convenient time for me to see my family, the closest of which live 9 hours away. When I give a gift, I am not celebrating Jesus's birth (which most believe did not even occur on Dec 25th anyway), but I am participating in a family tradition.

As far as my time goes, I don't expect you to understand unless you worked for a big city law firm. 2400 may not sound like a lot to you, but those are concentrated work hours, where you have to account for every 6 minutes of your time. I will work on 10-15 different matters during the day, and that work has to be planned and managed for budget and time. Sometimes you write your own time off because you don't want a supervisor to think it took you as long as it did to do something or you write your time off to stay under budget. I (as well as 99% of the attorneys that do what I do) need breaks to regain focus to start on the next project. I don't punch a card when I am here and punch out when I leave. When it is all said and done, on average, a patent prosecution attorney is probably at the office for 11 hours to "work" 8. Add in an hour for lunch (usually with other attorneys or clients) and at least hour commute (total, but conservative), and you are away from home for about 13 hours everyday. Divide out some time for eating, sleeping, grooming, and tending to any household obligations, and that leaves very little extra that you really feel like is "free". Not only that, but the work is so taxing that you MUST manage your mental health by taking some time off on most weekends (meaning take all of Saturday off or half Saturday and half Sunday) just to recharge and keep yourself from getting too sloppy.

[mentechsters]

The vast majority of Christmas traditions stem from paganism not Christianity. What difference does it make to you if choose to participate in secular gift-giving and time with the family? Does that cause my Atheist card to get revoked? My family is off during this time, most of the people at my office are off at that time, most of my clients are not trying to get me to do things for them at that time, and it falls at the end of the year when I know exactly how much time I can afford to take off and still hit my hours. It is the most convenient time for me to see my family, the closest of which live 9 hours away. When I give a gift, I am not celebrating Jesus's birth (which most believe did not even occur on Dec 25th anyway), but I am participating in a family tradition.

As far as my time goes, I don't expect you to understand unless you worked for a big city law firm. 2400 may not sound like a lot to you, but those are concentrated work hours, where you have to account for every 6 minutes of your time. I will work on 10-15 different matters during the day, and that work has to be planned and managed for budget and time. Sometimes you write your own time off because you don't want a supervisor to think it took you as long as it did to do something or you write your time off to stay under budget. I (as well as 99% of the attorneys that do what I do) need breaks to regain focus to start on the next project. I don't punch a card when I am here and punch out when I leave. When it is all said and done, on average, a patent prosecution attorney is probably at the office for 11 hours to "work" 8. Add in an hour for lunch (usually with other attorneys or clients) and at least hour commute (total, but conservative), and you are away from home for about 13 hours everyday. Divide out some time for eating, sleeping, grooming, and tending to any household obligations, and that leaves very little extra that you really feel like is "free". Not only that, but the work is so taxing that you MUST manage your mental health by taking some time off on most weekends (meaning take all of Saturday off or half Saturday and half Sunday) just to recharge and keep yourself from getting too sloppy.

Does anyone in your immediate family believe in God? I'm just curious as to how atheists live. How do u try to explain God to your children when they ask?

[Guisslapp]

Does anyone in your immediate family believe in God? I'm just curious as to how atheists live. How do u try to explain God to your children when they ask?

My wife and I are on the same page, and we do not have kids. If we did, we would tell them that we don't think a god exists and would also tell them that we would be happy to explain why we think this if they ever want to know.

[Guisslapp]

May I, Gus......

What fact of evidence could Y O U ever point to, to prove GOD does not exist?
How could Y O U prove that there is not an invisible massless GOD dancing around Y O U right now?
How could Y O U prove with incontrivertable facts that GOD does not exist?
Or that GOD was not involved in an orgy with 15 unnamed womed at an undisclosed place, at an indisclosed time?

There are plenty of good reasons not to believe in the existence of a GOD, but "certainty" in hypothetical, arbitrary ideas will always subject what you "know" to the subjective preferences of your whim.
Would you care to acknowledge the above?

Cheers.

You know that it depends on what you mean when you say the word "know". I am just as certain that there is no god as I am that there is no invisible massless gremlin dancing around BLUE collar.

[Abominable Gorilla]

Where does the tradition stem from? Perhaps the story of the Three Wise Men bringing gifts to the baby Jesus? I don't pretend to know your work or family arangement, but that would still leave you with an estimated 9 hours free time a day in which you were not sleeping. Sounds like a poor argument as to why you celebrate at this time. Now you have April 1st as an Athiest holiday, perhaps you should exchange your gifts then and stop crowding up our malls around this time.

The vast majority of Christmas traditions stem from paganism not Christianity.

BLUE collar, I'm a believer. However, I think you might be interested to look into the history of Christmas. It is definitely a pagan holiday converted. While we don't know when Christ was born, we know it was definitely not December.

Secondly, compare the number of people who spend money during the Christmas holidays to the number of people who tithe.