An atheist holiday

[hoppinmad]

That's almost become my philosophy at work.

You can't be a democratic congressman ... you must be a ref.:icon_wink:

[Spinoza]

please change the name of this thread, since it is now a one on one discussion that has little if anything to do with the original post, which died a well deserved death long ago. How about the Spin-Hop Pissing Match?:icon_wink:

Test......

[Spinoza]

please change the name of this thread, since it is now a one on one discussion that has little if anything to do with the original post, which died a well deserved death long ago. How about the Spin-Hop Pissing Match?:icon_wink:

Just a few questions......

1) If you have read this entire thread, did you happen to notice that the athiest holiday discussion/thread ENDED on the first page......
And from page two through post #142 became YET ANOTHER discussion regarding the existence, OR NOT of any god.

2) In your dawg message board experience......
What would be your best estimates regarding the percentage of threads that have inspired (a) over 100 comments (b) over 50 comments (c) over 10 comments (d) DAH......
Without a goodly number of the total replies being obviously OFF TOPIC?

3) Have you ever noticed a tendency by some message board authors to CRY "off topic" when they seemingly lack the ability to otherwise run with WOLVES?

4) Last question (a 2 pat query)......
Are you a member of the OFF TOPIC police?
If so...... Have sleeping on the job for over 200 posts on this thread?

Cheers.

[Spinoza]

Or "Grumpy Old Men."

Gimcoach thinks highly of your humor...... :icon_wink:

Cheers.

[Spinoza]

1. Yep, me neither, and I didn't post it as if I did. Lets do it this way...considering the number of people who have drawn a breath on this planet, do you ever recall hearing of an infant popping out holding a small book of rules and requirements?

NO......
And I also do not "recall hearing of an infant popping out" while holding a Bible, a Torah, a Koran, the Vedas, or the Buddhavacana, or any athiest "scripture.

You may now calculate your preferred "draw breath" without a "small book" = theology theory.

Cheers.

[Spinoza]

Are we clear now?

Perfectly "clear"......

I pose a question(s)......
And you reply by NOT answering the question(s) posed, but by substituting other words (yours) for mine, and then pretending that you are offering a meaningful response by proffering your thoughts regarding your edited text.

But that's OK......
For grumpy old men just sitting around a kithen table......
While (hopefully) swilling many bottles of good cold beer......
With no final score as a goal on any such horizontal surface.

It's been fun, Hoppy

Cheers.

[Spinoza]

That's almost become my philosophy at work.

When "almost" actually arrives......
Without either arriving or needing to arrive......
You will then NOT UNDERSTAND......
ALL that is not necessary to understand.

Spinoza (me, not the other one)

Cheers.

[Spinoza]

Regarding "age and years of accumulated damage"......

Have you ever noticed that the vast majority of all human beings become increasingly "conservative" as they age?
More "set in their ways"......
Less willing (if at all) to explore any "new" paths, or ponder "new" possibilities......
Less willing to TOLERATE the various thoughts and behaviors of others......
And more CERTAIN THEY ARE RIGHT about everything THEY deem to be truly important.

Needless to say......
Aging is not a necessary component for the construction of any such personal "conservative" citadel.
Some men use the same "building blocks" they played with in childhood to form the foundation of their preferred "conservative" fortress.

But why do so MANY MANY MANY men, who begin their lives by eagerly searching for knowledge and "truth" with relatively open minds, eventually surrender the freedom and excitement of any such "liberal legacy" for the common comfort of a cozy "conservative" cave?

An easy answer to this seeming riddle might be to suggest that each and everyone of these MANY MANY MANY men eventually exhaust their sincere and honest quest to discover every morsel of knowledge that leads to TRUTH......
And having learned THE TRUTH......
They therefore no longer need to remain OPEN to any of the "liberal" claptrap that may continue to fascinate and amuse other/lesser "liberal" minds.

But the OBVIOUS fly in any such alledgedly omniscient ointment, is the OBVIOUS fact that ALL "conservatives" do not LEARN THE SAME TRUTH!
And in FACT......
It would be more than an extremely difficult task to ever find so much as a mere TWO avowed "conservatives", who would admit to sharing precisely the same spectrum of TRUE conclusions, as the result of their LEARNED toil toward TRUTH!

So why then......
(If my observations that increasing age generally results in a drift (or a flood) toward a "conservative" stance are correct)
Does AGE so routinely and thoroughly metamorphose so MANY MANY MANY young "liberals"......
Into aged "conservatives"?

I have a number of thoughts concerning some possible/perhaps logical WHYS that produce this purported phenomenom......
(No surprise there to any dawg, eh?)

But before I continue on this topic......
I would truly enjoy reading any interesting rebuttal to my above scribbling......
And/or any reasoned dawg replies that might offer something akin to a logical link on this topic's chain of thought.

I shall now await any such interesting comments...... For awhile.

And BTW......
While I realize the following may appear to be silly for any but a truly dumb dawg......
Please note that my King's English use of the words "conservative" and "liberal" have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with either republican or democrat PARTY POLITICAL BULLSHIT.

Cheers and good night.

10 days is enough of "awhile" for me......
So I'll simply conclude my above query to my own satisfaction.

I'll preface the following remarks by stating that what I am about to state/suggest is not based on any fact(s) known to me, but is based solely on my own subjective observations/experiences.

YOUTH breeds a nearly universal conservative stance as every child begins dealing with the tiny sliver of reality that defines the obvious limits of each child's relatively tiny world.
My dad can beat any other dad.
My mom is a better mom than any other mom.
My town or city or hamlet is the best place to live.
My local sport teams (even when they lose) are the best teams.
My (my parent's) religion is the right religion.
My (my parent's) politics are the right politics.
And so on and so forth.

And if the cradle is not subsequently rocked too severly by an ernest education, and a substantially curious exposure to "outside influences"......
AND MUCH SERIOUS INTROSPECTION......
Not much CHANGE actually occurs between birth and death.

So why do some human children become birds who feel the need to fly away in varying degrees......
While other human children seemingly prefer to remain close to home, and bloom where and how they were born?

IMNHO......
Human life presents a constant and often challenging struggle between the often presumed SAFETY of SECURITY...... And the equally tempting LURE of ADVENTURE.

SECURITY (in its many forms) v. ADVENTURE (in its many forms) ......
Is that not the dilemma that most frequenty searches the soul of every mortal throughout every segment of human life......
For as long as the lure of ADVENTURE remains as truly tempting as any seemingly secure SAFETY?

As men age, however......
(No matter their prior and/or present philosophical, and theological, and economic circumstances......
SECURITY (for the few years remainging until unavoidable death) begins trumping LIFE......
And initiates a mental process that erodes most of the significant lure toward additional ADVENTURE......
BECAUSE of an increasing fear of RISK.

That's enough for tonight.
Perhaps more later...... Prehaps not!

Cheers.

[HoDo-Tech70]

IMNHO......
Human life presents a constant and often challenging struggle between the often presumed SAFETY of SECURITY...... And the equally tempting LURE of ADVENTURE.

SECURITY (in its many forms) v. ADVENTURE (in its many forms) ......
Is that not the dilemma that most frequenty searches the soul of every mortal throughout every segment of human life......
For as long as the lure of ADVENTURE remains as truly tempting as any seemingly secure SAFETY?

As men age, however......
(No matter their prior and/or present philosophical, and theological, and economic circumstances......
SECURITY (for the few years remainging until unavoidable death) begins trumping LIFE......
And initiates a mental process that erodes most of the significant lure toward additional ADVENTURE......
BECAUSE of an increasing fear of RISK.

That's enough for tonight.
Perhaps more later...... Prehaps not!

Cheers.

I may not be a good example for your theory, or maybe I haven't yet aged enough. I'm over 60 but on my bucket list is the goal of jumping out of an airplane - with a working parachute, of course. I also want to parasail, drive fast, ride roller coasters and go carts, and do adventurous things I've done since I was much younger. I'll even do bungee jumping. Hope my desire for adventure never ends.

I haven't done some of these adventures as much as I desired. My problem with doing even more adventurous things has not been my lack of desire for adventure but an even greater desire for financial security. I haven't chosen to spend the money to live out all of my adventurous desires. I've saved money for that inevitable rainy day. That's a lesson my depression era parents taught me.

Now that I've reached a level of financial security (and eternal security) that I'm comfortable with I'm ready for some more adventure. My wife and I travel a lot and we'll be in Illinois several times over the next few years. Want to join me in parachuting? You can be my BB&B witness.

PS: I won't need to drink beer to get me to do it.

[hoppinmad]

So why do some human children become birds who feel the need to fly away in varying degrees......
While other human children seemingly prefer to remain close to home, and bloom where and how they were born?

Good question!.... and particularly interesting if dawgs are open to examining all the "possibilities".

[Guisslapp]

10 days is enough of "awhile" for me......
So I'll simply conclude my above query to my own satisfaction.

I'll preface the following remarks by stating that what I am about to state/suggest is not based on any fact(s) known to me, but is based solely on my own subjective observations/experiences.

YOUTH breeds a nearly universal conservative stance as every child begins dealing with the tiny sliver of reality that defines the obvious limits of each child's relatively tiny world.
My dad can beat any other dad.
My mom is a better mom than any other mom.
My town or city or hamlet is the best place to live.
My local sport teams (even when they lose) are the best teams.
My (my parent's) religion is the right religion.
My (my parent's) politics are the right politics.
And so on and so forth.

And if the cradle is not subsequently rocked too severly by an ernest education, and a substantially curious exposure to "outside influences"......
AND MUCH SERIOUS INTROSPECTION......
Not much CHANGE actually occurs between birth and death.

So why do some human children become birds who feel the need to fly away in varying degrees......
While other human children seemingly prefer to remain close to home, and bloom where and how they were born?

IMNHO......
Human life presents a constant and often challenging struggle between the often presumed SAFETY of SECURITY...... And the equally tempting LURE of ADVENTURE.

SECURITY (in its many forms) v. ADVENTURE (in its many forms) ......
Is that not the dilemma that most frequenty searches the soul of every mortal throughout every segment of human life......
For as long as the lure of ADVENTURE remains as truly tempting as any seemingly secure SAFETY?

As men age, however......
(No matter their prior and/or present philosophical, and theological, and economic circumstances......
SECURITY (for the few years remainging until unavoidable death) begins trumping LIFE......
And initiates a mental process that erodes most of the significant lure toward additional ADVENTURE......
BECAUSE of an increasing fear of RISK.

That's enough for tonight.
Perhaps more later...... Prehaps not!

Cheers.

I don't think it has to do with the increasing fear of risk, but the increasing understanding of the value of personal responsibility.

[Spinoza]

I don't think it has to do with the increasing fear of risk, but the increasing understanding of the value of personal responsibility.

Three questions, Gus......

1) Why......
And with as much detail as you may feel necessary to support your "don't think" statement......
Do you not think "it has to do with the increasing fear of risk"?

2) Given the manner in which you have used the words "it" and "but instead" in your reply......
Does that mean you agree with the premise that the vast majority of human beings become conservative as they become aged?

3) What......
"increasing understanding of the value of personal responsibility"......
Toward what end? For what purpose?

If a sincere "liberal" condones the slaying of a fetus, and is willing to take "personal responsibility" for any role they have played toward that end...... What?

If a sincere conservative condones the slaying of an abortion doctor, and is willing to take "personal responsibility" for any role they have played toward that end...... What?

IMNHO......
Conservatives and liberals appear to be equally capable of taking "personal reponsibility" for their actions, both within the values of any private philosophy, and also within the often more limited boundries of public behavior.

Ergo...... I do not understand your counterproposal, and I shall await any reply with interest.

Cheers.

[Abominable Gorilla]

When "almost" actually arrives......
Without either arriving or needing to arrive......
You will then NOT UNDERSTAND......
ALL that is not necessary to understand.

Spinoza (me, not the other one)

Cheers.

I'm already to the bolded part. In fact, I don't understand lots of things that do seem to be necessary to understand. Looking back, I don't know why I was so excited to get this degree. All I really seem to know is how much I don't really know.

Fortunately I get to keep learning.

[Spinoza]

I may not be a good example for your theory, or maybe I haven't yet aged enough. I'm over 60 but on my bucket list is the goal of jumping out of an airplane - with a working parachute, of course. I also want to parasail, drive fast, ride roller coasters and go carts, and do adventurous things I've done since I was much younger. I'll even do bungee jumping. Hope my desire for adventure never ends.

I haven't done some of these adventures as much as I desired. My problem with doing even more adventurous things has not been my lack of desire for adventure but an even greater desire for financial security. I haven't chosen to spend the money to live out all of my adventurous desires. I've saved money for that inevitable rainy day. That's a lesson my depression era parents taught me.

Now that I've reached a level of financial security (and eternal security) that I'm comfortable with I'm ready for some more adventure. My wife and I travel a lot and we'll be in Illinois several times over the next few years. Want to join me in parachuting? You can be my BB&B witness.

PS: I won't need to drink beer to get me to do it.

Over 60 most definitely qualifies you to test this topic......
So let's peek together at my premise and your post.

"with a working parachute"...... Adventure WITHOUT risk?

"not been my lack of desire for ADVENTURE but an EVEN GREATER DESIRE for financial SECURITY"...... The constant struggle!

"for that inevitable rainy day"...... Fear of risk.

"reached a level of financial security"...... A worthy and understandable goal.

"(and eternal security)"...... ?????

"that I'm comfortable with"...... Perhaps the most significant achievement any man may stive for and eventually realize.

I'm ready for some more adventure...... Secure adventure? Uncertain safety?
--------------------------------------------------

And given the above with my thanks to HoDo......
This may be the most important footnote I have to offer regarding this topic.

Being COMFORTABLE in one's final years......
Regardless of whether any such comfort is eventually wrapped in a conservative or liberal package of philosophy......
Is neither a fluke nor a sin!
It is, instead, much akin to being born right-handed, and subsequently becoming comfortable with using one's right hand, one's left hand, or both hands......
To comfortably stroll through every valley of life, shadowed by death.

Cheers to HoDo and goodnight.

[HoDo-Tech70]

Over 60 most definitely qualifies you to test this topic......
So let's peek together at my premise and your post.

"with a working parachute"...... Adventure WITHOUT risk?

I really think your original point may be right for most people and, more than likely, I'll eventually get to a point when my desire for security outweighs my desire for adventure. Yes, it's adventure without risk. The parachute adventure will be for the thrill of the freefall but the risk is certainly minimal. I also want to scuba dive at the Great Barrier Reef - great white sharks, manta rays, and poisonous creatures of the sea. That's about the greatest risk I will ever want to take but it is still only a small risk.

"not been my lack of desire for ADVENTURE but an EVEN GREATER DESIRE for financial SECURITY"...... The constant struggle!

"for that inevitable rainy day"...... Fear of risk.

Possibly, but more likely that it is a concern about the future rather than fear of risk.

"reached a level of financial security"...... A worthy and understandable goal.

"(and eternal security)"...... ?????

John 3:16 states eternal security better than I could ever do.

"that I'm comfortable with"...... Perhaps the most significant achievement any man may stive for and eventually realize.

I'm ready for some more adventure...... Secure adventure? Uncertain safety?

Secure adventure for sure. I enjoy the thrill of speed and the thrill of falling which is why I'm a roller coaster addict. Roller coasters are extremely safe.

And given the above with my thanks to HoDo......
This may be the most important footnote I have to offer regarding this topic.

Being COMFORTABLE in one's final years......
Regardless of whether any such comfort is eventually wrapped in a conservative or liberal package of philosophy......
Is neither a fluke nor a sin!
It is, instead, much akin to being born right-handed, and subsequently becoming comfortable with using one's right hand, one's left hand, or both hands......
To comfortably stroll through every valley of life, shadowed by death.

Cheers to HoDo and goodnight.

My thanks to AG for my final response (edited parts in bold):

I don't understand lots of things that do seem to be necessary to understand. Looking back, I don't know why I was so excited to get to retirement age. All I really seem to know is how much I don't really know. Fortunately I get to keep learning.