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Thread: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

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    Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Facts of the case:

    1. Gates, a black professor, had been traveling for a few weeks. Upon returning home, his door was stuck shut. He and the driver who dropped him off (also black) were attempting to force open the door.

    2. A neighbor called the police because she thought they were burglars attempting to gain access and possibly rob the home.

    3. Two units responded, white males.

    4. After some discussions, Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct.

    5. The charges were later dropped (allegedly due to potential backlash)

    5. Obama on primetime TV, said that the police acted "stupidly"

    --------------------

    The police report said:
    Officer Figueroa responded to a call about a possible break-in at this residence. When I (Figueroa) arrived, Officer Crowley was already inside the residence speaking to a black male (which was Gates). As I stepped in I heard Crowley ask the man for identification. The gentleman (Gates) shouted at Crowley: "NO I WILL NOT!" Gates then shouted at Crowley "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO BLACK MEN IN AMERICA!" As Sgt Crowley was attempting to calm down Gates, the gentleman shouted "You don't know who you're messing with!" The gentleman refused to listen as to why the Cambridge police were there. I left the scene to talk with the original caller, who said that she saw Gates wedging his shoulder against the door to break it open. I returned to the scene and now they were on the front porch and there were several onlookers present, to whom Gates was shouting "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO BLACK MEN IN AMERICA!" While on the porch, the gentlemen refused to be cooperative and continued shouting that Sgt. Crowley was a racist.

    --------
    Keep in mind this is not the testimony of the arresting officer (Crowley).

    Gates disagrees with the police and says he complied with their requests and was not disorderly.


    Now lets examine proper protocol of citizens and police.

    1. If a citizen is witness to a possible crime, they should call the police. Check. I sure would want my neighbors to call the cops if somebody were forcing open my door.

    2. Police generally try to respond to crimes in progress. They did their duty by proceeding to the scene to investigate. Check.

    3. Upon arriving, police must determine whether, in fact, a crime is taking place. Check.

    4. They talked to the original caller. Check.

    5. Gates willfully complied with their investigation. Wait....no..he didn't. He was supposedly screaming and shouting and initially refused to identify himself (which is a crime). If I were dealing with police, I'd calmly comply and identify myself so they could clear the investigation and leave.

    6. Cops arrested Gates for disorderly conduct, which stems from belligerantly shouting on the front porch to the onlookers who had gathered. Check. You see folks like this on the TV show "Cops" all the time. Yes, this is an arrestable offense. I would expect to get arrested for acting in this manner. Check.

    -------------------------

    So who caused the situation? Gates. Who brought racism to national headlines? Gates. Who wanted to talk about it on national TV? Obama. Who called a police officer who acted according to protocol stupid on national TV? Obama.

    Who is the real villian? Gates. Secondary villian? Obama. Thank these two gentlemen for ADVANCING racism in America.

  2. #2
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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by FishingBack View Post
    Facts of the case:

    1. Gates, a black professor, had been traveling for a few weeks. Upon returning home, his door was stuck shut. He and the driver who dropped him off (also black) were attempting to force open the door.

    2. A neighbor called the police because she thought they were burglars attempting to gain access and possibly rob the home.

    3. Two units responded, white males.

    4. After some discussions, Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct.

    5. The charges were later dropped (allegedly due to potential backlash)

    5. Obama on primetime TV, said that the police acted "stupidly"

    --------------------

    The police report said:
    Officer Figueroa responded to a call about a possible break-in at this residence. When I (Figueroa) arrived, Officer Crowley was already inside the residence speaking to a black male (which was Gates). As I stepped in I heard Crowley ask the man for identification. The gentleman (Gates) shouted at Crowley: "NO I WILL NOT!" Gates then shouted at Crowley "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO BLACK MEN IN AMERICA!" As Sgt Crowley was attempting to calm down Gates, the gentleman shouted "You don't know who you're messing with!" The gentleman refused to listen as to why the Cambridge police were there. I left the scene to talk with the original caller, who said that she saw Gates wedging his shoulder against the door to break it open. I returned to the scene and now they were on the front porch and there were several onlookers present, to whom Gates was shouting "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO BLACK MEN IN AMERICA!" While on the porch, the gentlemen refused to be cooperative and continued shouting that Sgt. Crowley was a racist.

    --------
    Keep in mind this is not the testimony of the arresting officer (Crowley).

    Gates disagrees with the police and says he complied with their requests and was not disorderly.


    Now lets examine proper protocol of citizens and police.

    1. If a citizen is witness to a possible crime, they should call the police. Check. I sure would want my neighbors to call the cops if somebody were forcing open my door.

    2. Police generally try to respond to crimes in progress. They did their duty by proceeding to the scene to investigate. Check.

    3. Upon arriving, police must determine whether, in fact, a crime is taking place. Check.

    4. They talked to the original caller. Check.

    5. Gates willfully complied with their investigation. Wait....no..he didn't. He was supposedly screaming and shouting and initially refused to identify himself (which is a crime). If I were dealing with police, I'd calmly comply and identify myself so they could clear the investigation and leave.

    6. Cops arrested Gates for disorderly conduct, which stems from belligerantly shouting on the front porch to the onlookers who had gathered. Check. You see folks like this on the TV show "Cops" all the time. Yes, this is an arrestable offense. I would expect to get arrested for acting in this manner. Check.

    -------------------------

    So who caused the situation? Gates. Who brought racism to national headlines? Gates. Who wanted to talk about it on national TV? Obama. Who called a police officer who acted according to protocol stupid on national TV? Obama.

    Who is the real villian? Gates. Secondary villian? Obama. Thank these two gentlemen for ADVANCING racism in America.
    If there were on lookers from the neighborhood looking on I am sure one of the next door neighbors woud have said Gates is the owner of the home... They were responding to a break in. The report shows that Gates is upset but he is not considered a threat. Why at this point do you arrest him?

  3. #3
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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    I bet the fact that it was two men trying to get into a house instead of a single person or a man and woman also contributed to the appearance of a break in. Perhaps the gay community should also be upset.
    Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
    Its a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.

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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by buck_dawg_gold View Post
    If there were on lookers from the neighborhood looking on I am sure one of the next door neighbors woud have said Gates is the owner of the home... They were responding to a break in. The report shows that Gates is upset but he is not considered a threat. Why at this point do you arrest him?
    Because many cops are jackasses on power trips.
    Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
    Its a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.

  5. #5
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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by buck_dawg_gold View Post
    If there were on lookers from the neighborhood looking on I am sure one of the next door neighbors woud have said Gates is the owner of the home... They were responding to a break in. The report shows that Gates is upset but he is not considered a threat. Why at this point do you arrest him?
    They didn't arrest him for breaking into his own house. They arrested him for disorderly conduct. You with me there?

  6. #6
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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by FishingBack View Post
    They didn't arrest him for breaking into his own house. They arrested him for disorderly conduct. You with me there?
    If you bump your door with your shoulder to get it open and a cop knocks on your door and says we have reason to believe that you broke into your house that you pay a mortgage on every month would you not be a little upset...?

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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by buck_dawg_gold View Post
    If you bump your door with your shoulder to get it open and a cop knocks on your door and says we have reason to believe that you broke into your house that you pay a mortgage on every month would you not be a little upset...?
    1. He rents, doesn't own
    2. When you call the cops, it creates an item on a list to be investigated. Depending on what is going on at the time, they usually respond as fast as they can. They have to investigate all calls.
    3. Who cares why they showed up, why do the whole "screaming and racist accusations" thing.

    If cops came to my door after getting a call about a break-in, I would give them my ID and explain the situation, not fly off the handle about racism in America.

    This could have easily avoided but Gates *chose* to escalate the situation.

  8. #8
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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by buck_dawg_gold View Post
    If you bump your door with your shoulder to get it open and a cop knocks on your door and says we have reason to believe that you broke into your house that you pay a mortgage on every month would you not be a little upset...?
    Actually, if me and a male buddy were aggresively forcing my way into my house and the cops showed up, I would feel like I live in a safe area. I can't expect the cop to know that I pay the mortgage for the house until I show him some identification.
    Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
    Its a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.

  9. #9
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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    However, if a cop arrested me in my house for disorderly conduct AFTER I reasonably proved I lived there, I would be pissed.
    Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
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  10. #10
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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    However, if a cop arrested me in my house for disorderly conduct AFTER I reasonably proved I lived there, I would be pissed.
    Is it a crime in Massachusetts to scream at police officers and onlookers during an investigation? The report seemed to indicate that 7 onlookers came by because of the commotion and looked alarmed.

    In LA you could get hit with disturbing the peace for that.

  11. #11
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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by buck_dawg_gold View Post
    If you bump your door with your shoulder to get it open and a cop knocks on your door and says we have reason to believe that you broke into your house that you pay a mortgage on every month would you not be a little upset...?
    I would be confused, but I would clear the situation up by giving him my driver's license. I dont see why Gates was so upset, unless there is more information to this story. A neighbor called because she thought the house was being broken into and cops showed up and followed protocol. I dont know about exactly why they arrested him, if he just refused to identify himself, then he was asking for it.

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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by FishingBack View Post
    Is it a crime in Massachusetts to scream at police officers and onlookers during an investigation? The report seemed to indicate that 7 onlookers came by because of the commotion and looked alarmed.

    In LA you could get hit with disturbing the peace for that.
    All I am saying is that I expect officers to be reasonable and use discretion. As soon as this guy made it clear that he lived there, assuming he ever did, they should have left. If he was being uncooperative to the point they could not identify him as the rightful occupant or he otherwise was a flight risk or put the officers in danger, they should arrest him. I don't fault the officers one bit for checking into this, and this guy was a giant douchebag if he felt he was entitled not to have to prove he rightfully belonged in the house.
    Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
    Its a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.

  13. #13
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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Here's a link to Crowley's police report. The other officer was with the university police. This one is very detailed.

    Note that after complaining that the cuffs were too tight, Officer Crowley let another officer apply cuffs with the hands in front, to be more comfortable. Gates said he needed his cane to walk, so Crowley went inside and got his cane for him. Crowley found a man to secure the residence and Gates agreed that he knew the man and trusted him to secure his residence.

    That doesn't sound like a racist to me. A racist would have tightly cuffed him and chunked him in the car without a cane.

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...092gates2.html

    Please read that link before further responding....

  14. #14
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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by FishingBack View Post
    1. He rents, doesn't own
    2. When you call the cops, it creates an item on a list to be investigated. Depending on what is going on at the time, they usually respond as fast as they can. They have to investigate all calls.
    3. Who cares why they showed up, why do the whole "screaming and racist accusations" thing.

    If cops came to my door after getting a call about a break-in, I would give them my ID and explain the situation, not fly off the handle about racism in America.

    This could have easily avoided but Gates *chose* to escalate the situation.
    Gates says he complied with the requests of the officer.... If so why arrest him...?

  15. #15
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    Re: Gates, Crowley, racism, and Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    All I am saying is that I expect officers to be reasonable and use discretion. As soon as this guy made it clear that he lived there, assuming he ever did, they should have left. If he was being uncooperative to the point they could not identify him as the rightful occupant or he otherwise was a flight risk or put the officers in danger, they should arrest him. I don't fault the officers one bit for checking into this, and this guy was a giant douchebag if he felt he was entitled not to have to prove he rightfully belonged in the house.
    It sounded like the officer had already stepped off the porch onto the sidewalk to leave, when Gates continued yelling at him and causing a disturbance.

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