Sarah Palin is "downright evil"

[saltydawg]

Hitler was a socialist. Obama is moving us in a socialist direction. Does that mean we're going to be rounded up? No.....

I don't think most people opposed to socialism are well educated on socialist Germany in the Nazi era - including me.

But the idea of socialism? Sure you can draw that line, just like you drew the line from Bush to Hitler.

How is President Obama moving us in a socialist direction. He is no more socialistic than GWB.

[saltydawg]

If you wait until it's passed, then it's too late to do anything about it like call a congress member. What a dumb statement.

What exactly are you upset about with health care reform?

[dhussdawg]

What exactly are you upset about with health care reform?

Well, for starters, I dont understand how it is supposed to curb costs. Obama's big push is the "preventive care" initiative, which to me is contradictory. Because you can either A) make it "free" for people to have preventive care visits, and they will go and probably be slightly more healthy, but they will abuse the system and go way too much leading to higher costs or B) you make them pay for a portion of it and then most of them want go because they dont want to spend their money on it leading to not much savings on the "preventive care" measures. "Preventive care" is about individuals being responsible and taking care of themselves. Government cannot do it for them.

The only good thing I see is the Health Info System because it would probably cut down on the administrative costs, but that is about it. Outside of that, it is a wing and prayer on hoping to reduce costs.

[saltydawg]

Well, for starters, I dont understand how it is supposed to curb costs. Obama's big push is the "preventive care" initiative, which to me is contradictory. Because you can either A) make it "free" for people to have preventive care visits, and they will go and probably be slightly more healthy, but they will abuse the system and go way too much leading to higher costs or B) you make them pay for a portion of it and then most of them want go because they dont want to spend their money on it leading to not much savings on the "preventive care" measures. "Preventive care" is about individuals being responsible and taking care of themselves. Government cannot do it for them.

The only good thing I see is the Health Info System because it would probably cut down on the administrative costs, but that is about it. Outside of that, it is a wing and prayer on hoping to reduce costs.

Doesn't seem to me , DH, that you are tearing out your hair about Obamacare. Yeah, I don't understand how costs will be reduced either but since our health care system cost twice as much as other industrialized countries which have the same level of health as us, I can understand that cost reductions are possible.

[Guisslapp]

Doesn't seem to me , DH, that you are tearing out your hair about Obamacare. Yeah, I don't understand how costs will be reduced either but since our health care system cost twice as much as other industrialized countries which have the same level of health as us, I can understand that cost reductions are possible.

Several obvious reasons our costs are high relative to other countries:

(1) we provide MORE care and amenities
(2) we subsidize the world with our R&D
(3) we have more to spend.

None of these disproportionately help our health outcomes - especially considering that the drugs that are developed here are often sold elsewhere first.

[FishingBack]

What exactly are you upset about with health care reform?

There are a number of significant concerns. Government control over our lives, cost, expansion of federal power, and a mistrust of the idea that the government can effectively manage large entities.

[Guisslapp]

There are a number of significant concerns. Government control over our lives, cost, expansion of federal power, and a mistrust of the idea that the government can effectively manage large entities.

It is also like some jack ass, who has already told you he would love to build a skyscaper, buys the lot next to your house and pours a slab that clearly could support the skyscraper. He may not have blocked your view yet, but he has laid the foundation.

[dhussdawg]

Doesn't seem to me , DH, that you are tearing out your hair about Obamacare. Yeah, I don't understand how costs will be reduced either but since our health care system cost twice as much as other industrialized countries which have the same level of health as us, I can understand that cost reductions are possible.

Okay, so dump a pile of money on it without ensuring that costs will be controlled will somehow reduce costs. Yeh, maybe we will get lucky somehow and costs will go down, but I am not much on blind luck. I would at least like to know some numbers and some probabilities.

[daybreaker3]

There are a number of significant concerns. Government control over our lives, cost, expansion of federal power, and a mistrust of the idea that the government can effectively manage large entities.

So why arent you protesting the military? Every single one of those things applies to that too. Government control over your defense? Check. Expensive? Check. Increased use by federal government? Check. Large entity managed by government? Check.

Oops!

So now instead of right wing media talking points, do you have any *real* reasons you dont want a public option?

[FishingBack]

So why arent you protesting the military? Every single one of those things applies to that too. Government control over your defense? Check. Expensive? Check. Increased use by federal government? Check. Large entity managed by government? Check.

Oops!

So now instead of right wing media talking points, do you have any *real* reasons you dont want a public option?

Did you know standing armies were unconstitutional?

Government is SUPPOSED to provide for defense. See the constitution. Apples to Oranges.

Expensive? Check. Too expensive? Sure, imo. I would drastically alter the military base strategy.


Also, I don't personally fight other countries but I do personally get healthcare, the insurance which comes directly out of my check as a line item.

What a wacky response.

[LookingForResults]

Did you know standing armies were unconstitutional?

Government is SUPPOSED to provide for defense. See the constitution. Apples to Oranges.

Expensive? Check. Too expensive? Sure, imo. I would drastically alter the military base strategy.


Also, I don't personally fight other countries but I do personally get healthcare, the insurance which comes directly out of my check as a line item.

What a wacky response.

It's the only thing of which he's capable. Politically, he's a waste of your (everyone's) time. Put him on ignore.

[saltydawg]

Several obvious reasons our costs are high relative to other countries:

(1) we provide MORE care and amenities
(2) we subsidize the world with our R&D
(3) we have more to spend.

None of these disproportionately help our health outcomes - especially considering that the drugs that are developed here are often sold elsewhere first.

As if European countries don't have drug companies developing state of the art drugs.:icon_wink:

Besides, your argument begs the question of why other countries don't pay as much as we do for the latest drugs.

Why is that?

More "care and amenities"? How about some facts instead of platitudes.

[Guisslapp]

As if European countries don't have drug companies developing state of the art drugs.:icon_wink:

Besides, your argument begs the question of why other countries don't pay as much as we do for the latest drugs.

Because they can't afford to. We can. Therefore they charge higher rates here. If they could not charge as high of rate here, there would be less pharma R&D. Plus FDA approval is very expensive.

[saltydawg]

There are a number of significant concerns. Government control over our lives, cost, expansion of federal power, and a mistrust of the idea that the government can effectively manage large entities.

Let's see.

(1) The gov't already has control over our lives. Health care reform has minimum effect.

(2) What is the cost? Perhaps better care at less cost? Probably more likely than increased costs.

(3) What expansion of federal power. Please spell it out in detail.

(4) Your mistrust is all in your head. Do you distrust our military? If so, why?

[FriscoDog]

I found it intresting that many of the countries that have "government healthcare" or single payer healthcare also have personal income taxes that go as high as 50-63%. That compared to US which has a high of 36%. You can't implement something like this without raising taxes, or making huge cuts in existing programs Medicare,Medicaid, Social Secutiry etc. The money has to come from some where and if BHO isn't making cuts in the programs listed above, where will the money come from?

I also spoke to a woman today who was a supporter of the healthcare reform. She believes that under Obamacare that if she has a sniffle, or serious accident, she will be able to go to any doctor she wants, and not have to pay a dime. She doesn't think she will spend hours in waiting rooms to be seen. She assumes all will remain the same as it does today with her employer based healthcare except she will get it for free.