In a bit, we're going to get into the discussion of the definition of "know" for the purposes of this survey.
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Strong Theist: I do not question the existence of God, I KNOW he exists.
De-facto Theist: I can't know for sure but I believe and I live on the assumption that he's there.
Weak Theist: I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.
Pure Agnostic: God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.
Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical.
De-facto Atheist: I can't know for sure but it's very improbable and I live under that assumption.
Strong Atheist: I am 100% sure that there is no God.
In a bit, we're going to get into the discussion of the definition of "know" for the purposes of this survey.
I am a STRONG Theist - top of the scale. Our belief system might be a little different, though. In other words, the question for me is not IF God exists, it is a question of if man knows who and what God is and what He wants for us. Many organized religions are man made and not necessarily what God intended. I am not saying my beliefs are correct. I am just saying that interpretation of what God says may be different from man to man and religion to religion.
There is an ancient Jewish rabbinical teaching that there are 4 levels of interpretation to every line in the Bible. I think what you MAY be talking about is that there are preachers / churches who MAY expound upon a different level, which would make it seem different than the way you interpret the same scripture. Both of you could actually be right.Originally Posted by champion110
Here's a good site that kind of explains what I'm talking about:
http://www.betemunah.org/sod.html
Hey AG,
Well try this for starters; most moms/dads can relate to it:
You have a scared, crying youngster standing on the diving board while you're treading water right below him encouraging him to jump his first time. He turns around and goes back several times still crying, and then finally he jumps on faith that you love him enough and he's going to be ok.
Once he's in your arms, something just changed within the youngster....his faith leaped a little further ahead to knowing. At this point, he's now a changed person with regard to diving boards , and now you can't keep him off of one.
I appreciate your example. Just to be sure, I'll go have a kid. Can the discussion hold off for a few years?
Anyway, to use JL's examples, I know 2+2=4 because I can prove it. I know RNA because someone else proved it. However, since I cannot myself verify it to be true, do I really know or am I just trusting the evidence in faith? I believe in God strongly enough to be convinced of his existence. However, I cannot prove that existence to someone else.
I think God can be proven by the history of Israel. There is no way it is just coincidence that the history of that nation has happened just as predicted 5000 years ago. (Unless it is a 5000 year conspiracy by the Jews).
I'm just not convinced that this is necessary for knowledge. Let's say that you had a friend that I had never met. If I had not met this friend, you couldn't prove it to me. You could show me a letter the friend had written you, you could tell me what this friend means to you, you could even give a detailed description of him, but if I had never met him, you couldn't prove his existence, or the existence of your relationship with him to me.
Still, you would know that you knew him and that you had a relationship with him.
Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle
What was predicted 5,000 years ago?
What if he showed you a picture?
The history of Israel. That they would conquer the Canaanites (1400 BC), dwell in the land forever (if they were obedient to God) or be dispersed among the nations (if they were not) (30AD). And in the end of days, God would call them back from among the nations to become a nation again (1948). Can that be a coincidence?
(my dates are probably wrong)
Easily. Especially the last part in a self-fulfulling prophesy sort of way.
Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
“It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”
If I don't know the guy, how do I know the picture is who he says it is?
Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle
Is there any other nation/people/culture that has ever ceased to exist and then reformed in an identical nation/people/culture they were before they were conquered?
Like the French?
Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
“It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”
Do the French share the same religion? Were they collectively sent packing from France after they were conquered? Did they return to France and re-establish their French dialect? Was this predicted thousands of years before it happened?
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