McGwire says he DID

[BLUE collar]

You are right that it may not be known in every case. However, remember that very few of those eligible are ever elected to the HOF by the baseball writers. I think they probably have good educated guesses as to who is involved.

In McGwire's case, less than 25% of the voters have voted for him in 4 years. My guess is that many of that 75% that didn't vote for McGwire will not vote for anyone who has ever been linked to taking steroids/HGH.

As Dwayne stated earlier, Biggio will be linked to Bagwell and there has been speculation about Bagwell. Biggio may not be elected because of that speculation about Bagwell. I hope Biggio gets in, but I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't. Would it be fair that an innocent eligible player doesn't get elected? - NO but that's just the way it is. The baseball writers make the choices and they may miss both ways.

I still fail to see where this plays a role. Cal Ripken Jr. still got in even though he was on a team with Rafael Palmeiro and I'm sure other users.

[HoDo-Tech70]

I still fail to see where this plays a role. Cal Ripken Jr. still got in even though he was on a team with Rafael Palmeiro and I'm sure other users.

It shouldn't play a role, but some writers may hold some players to that standard. Remember it takes 75% of the voters listing a name on the ballot to get elected. There are usually 540 or so voters. Each writer sets his/her own standard. If around 135 or more voters decide that Biggio should not be in the HOF for whatever reason, he will not be elected.

Cal Ripken was a shoo-in but he still did not get 100% of the vote. For some reason, 8 voters of the 545 did not vote for him. I wonder why they didn't vote for him. Maybe it was the number he wore or the way he parted his hair (early years).

The bottom line is that each writer sets his/her own standard and they are not accountable to anyone for their vote.

[dhussdawg]

It shouldn't play a role, but some writers may hold some players to that standard. Remember it takes 75% of the voters listing a name on the ballot to get elected. There are usually 540 or so voters. Each writer sets his/her own standard. If around 135 or more voters decide that Biggio should not be in the HOF for whatever reason, he will not be elected.

Cal Ripken was a shoo-in but he still did not get 100% of the vote. For some reason, 8 voters of the 545 did not vote for him. I wonder why they didn't vote for him. Maybe it was the number he wore or the way he parted his hair (early years).

The bottom line is that each writer sets his/her own standard and they are not accountable to anyone for their vote.

Yeh, the whole fact that guys like Cal Ripken do not get 100 percent of the vote is just gay to me. Seriously? How petty is that?

[BLUE collar]

It shouldn't play a role, but some writers may hold some players to that standard. Remember it takes 75% of the voters listing a name on the ballot to get elected. There are usually 540 or so voters. Each writer sets his/her own standard. If around 135 or more voters decide that Biggio should not be in the HOF for whatever reason, he will not be elected.

Cal Ripken was a shoo-in but he still did not get 100% of the vote. For some reason, 8 voters of the 545 did not vote for him. I wonder why they didn't vote for him. Maybe it was the number he wore or the way he parted his hair (early years).

The bottom line is that each writer sets his/her own standard and they are not accountable to anyone for their vote.

So say he may not get in because of voters feeling weird, but the man had 3000+ hits. That is hall worthy. The fact that he played with users means nothing.

[Dwayne From Minden]

I still fail to see where this plays a role. Cal Ripken Jr. still got in even though he was on a team with Rafael Palmeiro and I'm sure other users.

Cal did not play with Palmeiro in the prime of his career, he was on the down side - where as Biggio and the "Killer B's" are linked at the hip and were marketed in such a manner....

Apples and oranges -

NFL - looks at on the field performance and was basically considered a "rouge sport" until the mid to late 70's with the emergence of the Steelers and the Cowboys - they played 2nd fiddle to MLB

MLB - has not so clearly defined "for the good of the game" loopholes in its unwritten rules which carry over to the HOF voting by the writers and scribes - basically they use a different set of criteria as compared to the NFL

If Rose was in the NFL and put up similar stats he would have been a first Ballot HOFer - even with his allegations in today's world

[dhussdawg]

Cal did not play with Palmeiro in the prime of his career, he was on the down side - where as Biggio and the "Killer B's" are linked at the hip and were marketed in such a manner....

Apples and oranges -

NFL - looks at on the field performance and was basically considered a "rouge sport" until the mid to late 70's with the emergence of the Steelers and the Cowboys - they played 2nd fiddle to MLB

MLB - has not so clearly defined "for the good of the game" loopholes in its unwritten rules which carry over to the HOF voting by the writers and scribes - basically they use a different set of criteria as compared to the NFL

If Rose was in the NFL and put up similar stats he would have been a first Ballot HOFer - even with his allegations in today's world

Yep, it is different for every sport. Just look at Tiger. If he plays any other major sport, outside of the gentlemen's game, he doesnt lose sponsors like he has. Of course, he wouldnt have the same sponsors, either. His episode makes it clear to see that there are different morals and ethics in each sport, and HoF voting will hold you to that standard when voting on you. Obviously, you will not meet a more fickle group than the group that votes on the baseball HoF, where ethics and likeability are almost as important as on the field performance.

[BLUE collar]

Cal did not play with Palmeiro in the prime of his career, he was on the down side - where as Biggio and the "Killer B's" are linked at the hip and were marketed in such a manner....

Apples and oranges -

NFL - looks at on the field performance and was basically considered a "rouge sport" until the mid to late 70's with the emergence of the Steelers and the Cowboys - they played 2nd fiddle to MLB

MLB - has not so clearly defined "for the good of the game" loopholes in its unwritten rules which carry over to the HOF voting by the writers and scribes - basically they use a different set of criteria as compared to the NFL

If Rose was in the NFL and put up similar stats he would have been a first Ballot HOFer - even with his allegations in today's world

I still fail to see where it matters in Biggio's case.

[dhussdawg]

I still fail to see where it matters in Biggio's case.

I could see it, but I dont know if it will affect him that greatly. Biggio wasnt a juicer kind of guy. He had decent pop, but nothing ridiculous. He was a gamer and well-liked around the league. I think all of that (plus 3,000 hits) will get him in. Maybe they might punish him for association by not making him first ballot, but I believe he gets in.

[HoDo-Tech70]

I still fail to see where it matters in Biggio's case.

If 74.9% of voters feel that same way, then he will still not get elected. I really don't know how this whole issue will play out in the minds of voters. I am very interested to find out.

One of my new baseball goals is to make it to Cooperstown for an induction ceremony for one of the Astros. I believe Biggio is my best chance although Bagwell will be eligible for election one year earlier.

[BLUE collar]

If 74.9% of voters feel that same way, then he will still not get elected. I really don't know how this whole issue will play out in the minds of voters. I am very interested to find out.

One of my new baseball goals is to make it to Cooperstown for an induction ceremony for one of the Astros. I believe Biggio is my best chance although Bagwell will be eligible for election one year earlier.

Maybe Johnson will go in as an Astro . Seriously though, I went a few years ago, not on induction weekend, just as a day trip while traveling from Boston to Baltimore... I know a little out of the way. But it was indescribable. The place is a palace to the game and it was one of the greatest experiences of my life. I'll never forget going.

[HoDo-Tech70]

Maybe Johnson will go in as an Astro . Seriously though, I went a few years ago, not on induction weekend, just as a day trip while traveling from Boston to Baltimore... I know a little out of the way. But it was indescribable. The place is a palace to the game and it was one of the greatest experiences of my life. I'll never forget going.

You captured my feelings about the HOF. It is truly a great experience that is hard to describe. I've made two visits to the HOF. The last time was in June 2008. It is a special place that every baseball fan needs to visit.

Hope to get back again this summer when I go to see games in the new Yankee Stadium and Citi Field (Mets). The Yankees play the Astros in Yankee Stadium on June 11-13. I may try to spend two days at the HOF as 6 to 8 hours just lets you skim the surface. Fortunately, my wife has been very understanding of my addiction to baseball memories. However, two days at the HOF may test her patience.

[BLUE collar]

This guy thinks he is a creep and I agree with most of his thoughts.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4828816

[dhussdawg]

This guy thinks he is a creep and I agree with most of his thoughts.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4828816

"This guy", you do know who Jack Clark is, dont you BC?

[BLUE collar]

"This guy", you do know who Jack Clark is, dont you BC?

I know a little about him. I know he was a player and manager, and is known for calling Tony Gwynn "selfish" at some point. Anything else I should know?