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Thread: McGwire says he DID

  1. #16
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    Quote Originally Posted by HoDo-Tech70 View Post
    I'll bet you are thinking of Jeff Bagwell.

    The voters (baseball writers) more than likely know who is guilty without any admission by the player. It seems that less than 25% of current voters supported McGwire. The vote results will determine if players get in. I'm satisfied with that. No testimony is needed.

    My guess is that Bagwell will NOT make it. If he does, then it establishes to me that his "hard work" of lifting weights and workouts was his key to success. Either that or a lot of voters had a merciful moment.
    I liked Bags as a player, I cannot say the same about McGuire. I hope that Bags was not involved in it all, but I guess time will tell. Now Biggio is undoubtedly "THE MAN." Killer B's all the way.

  2. #17
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    Quote Originally Posted by HoDo-Tech70 View Post
    I'll bet you are thinking of Jeff Bagwell.

    The voters (baseball writers) more than likely know who is guilty without any admission by the player. It seems that less than 25% of current voters supported McGwire. The vote results will determine if players get in. I'm satisfied with that. No testimony is needed.

    My guess is that Bagwell will NOT make it. If he does, then it establishes to me that his "hard work" of lifting weights and workouts was his key to success. Either that or a lot of voters had a merciful moment.

    How in the world would the voters KNOW who's guilty?

    I think Bagwell did steroids. I want him put on the spot just as McGwire was. Same goes for dozens of other players who will come up for Hall consideration.
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  3. #18
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUE collar View Post
    Most likely, your baseballs weren't worht a bunch to being with. You have to take into effect the fact that the more times he, or any player for that matter, signed his autograph, the less its value is. The rare ones are the ones worth the money. It is a great item to be passed down to your children and their children however, because as time goes by, Big Mac will pass away and many of his signatures will disappear, thus making his signatures more and more valuable. He was a big part of our game, its history, and the resurection of baseball in America after the strike in the early 90s. For that reason, I believe that he will eventually be forgiven in the public eye, but it may be well past his alloted 15 years for HOF entry.
    I know you couldn't tell but I was being sarcastic to start with. I am fully aware of the monetary value of McGwire's autograph as well as the other HOF'ers that my family has.

  4. #19
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    I'm alright with this, but I don't want McGwire to be the goat. Set the precident. If we aren't going to induct McGwire for steroid use, then no one else who gets caught gets in either.

  5. #20
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech77 View Post
    How in the world would the voters KNOW who's guilty?

    I think Bagwell did steroids. I want him put on the spot just as McGwire was. Same goes for dozens of other players who will come up for Hall consideration.
    The writers don't KNOW for sure, but if only 25.01% don't vote for a player because they suspect he is guilty, then he will never make the HOF.

    As far as Clemens, he used to be an Astro and as an Astro, he was innocent until proven guilty. Cardinals and Cubs, of course, are guilty until proven innocent. See the difference. Clemens left the Astros so now he is guilty. However, I suspect he will still make the HOF but probably not the first few years of eligiblity.

    I'm really curious how the voters will respond over the years to McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, and Bagwell who have HOF numbers. Will there be forgiveness?

  6. #21
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    Quote Originally Posted by hodo-tech70 View Post
    the writers don't know for sure, but if only 25.01% don't vote for a player because they suspect he is guilty, then he will never make the hof.

    As far as clemens, he used to be an astro and as an astro, he was innocent until proven guilty. Cardinals and cubs, of course, are guilty until proven innocent. See the difference. clemens left the astros so now he is guilty. However, i suspect he will still make the hof but probably not the first few years of eligiblity.

    I'm really curious how the voters will respond over the years to mcgwire, bonds, clemens, and bagwell who have hof numbers. Will there be forgiveness?
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  7. #22
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    Quote Originally Posted by dhussdawg View Post
    Hold up, arent steroids illegal in the US without prescription? Thus, they are illegal without doctor's orders. Thus, unless McGwire had a medical reason for taking them, then they were illegal to take. I think US law supercedes baseball's bylaws.

    Wait, hold up guys, it isnt illegal for him to take heroine per the baseball bylaws, therefore, he is okay.
    JMHO, but there is a difference. Baseball has an established set of rules. The laws are an entirely difference set of rules. The discussion is not whether or not McGwire should be put under criminal investigations. The discussion is whether or not he should go into the HOF.

    Do you think players who are caught with heroine should be banned from the HOF?

  8. #23
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUE collar View Post
    -100,000,000
    Oh no, you must be another Cubbies fan.

    Somehow, I've got some friends who are Cubbies fans. My daughter is a Cubbies fan.

  9. #24
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    Quote Originally Posted by HoDo-Tech70 View Post
    Oh no, you must be another Cubbies fan.

    Somehow, I've got some friends who are Cubbies fans. My daughter is a Cubbies fan.
    I am, sadly they give me hope.

  10. #25
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    Okay, McGwire hit 70 HRs and Bonds hit 73.
    Is that all you can do on the juice hitting a 90-95mph round fastball with a round barrel bat?
    Why not more?:icon_wink:
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  11. #26
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgpix View Post
    Okay, McGwire hit 70 HRs and Bonds hit 73.
    Is that all you can do on the juice hitting a 90-95mph round fastball with a round barrel bat?
    Why not more?:icon_wink:
    I'm confused, what point are you trying to make here?

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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    In other breaking news the Pope declares he is Catholic!!

  13. #28
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    This guy says Bagwell was one of the game's worst offenders when it comes to steroids:



    http://baseballevolution.com/asher/b...onspiracy.html
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  14. #29
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    Quote Originally Posted by Abominable Gorilla View Post
    JMHO, but there is a difference. Baseball has an established set of rules. The laws are an entirely difference set of rules. The discussion is not whether or not McGwire should be put under criminal investigations. The discussion is whether or not he should go into the HOF.

    Do you think players who are caught with heroine should be banned from the HOF?
    That is up to the HOF, but all this garbage about "well, it wasnt illegal in baseball" is BS. If it is illegal in the US, it is illegal in major league baseball, since the game is played on US soil (disregarding Canada because I am not sure of their laws). Obviously, McGwire was playing baseball and using steroids on US soil, so it was illegal regardless of MLB rules.

    Do you think baseball's rules supercede the countries? Wait guys, MLB said it was okay to shoot up heroine, therefore you wont get in trouble for it. No, it is the other way around.

    The country's laws do not dictate rather a guy gets into the Hall of Fame, as it shouldnt. That should be up to the Hall of Fame committee and baseball to decide to forgive a man for his transgressions against the game or the country's laws.

  15. #30
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    Re: McGwire says he DID

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech77 View Post
    This guy says Bagwell was one of the game's worst offenders when it comes to steroids:



    http://baseballevolution.com/asher/b...onspiracy.html
    OK, I read the article and it is full of circumstantial evidence that appears to make a compelling case leading to Jeff Bagwell. There is enough circumstantial evidence to convince some people.

    Thank goodness I read the whole thing or I might have thought poorly of Jeff Bagwell. The writer of this 2004 piece made this comment in 2007. It's at the bottom of the blog.

    This article has been getting far more attention in 2007 than it ever did in 2004. Back when I wrote this, people always used to get that it was a satire, a joke, a farce. But these are interesting times, and the days when this was obviously a joke seem to be over. Perhaps it is a testament to the creative genius of my 2004 self, or a testament to how absurd the steroid controversy has become, but it is wild just how reasonable this article seems now when it seemed utterly ridiculous just three years ago.

    Notice that he said it was written as a satire, a joke, a farce and it seemed utterly ridiculous just three years ago. Jeff Bagwell remains "innocent" as this did not prove him guilty. However, I will be surprised if he is first time selection to the HOF. He will be fortunate to get 50% of the vote.

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