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Thread: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

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    Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Before beginning this thread journey......
    Regarding what may actually be an original thought for Christians (and others)......
    (at least I have never seen it in print, or ever heard of it being ideated by anyone else previously)
    I would like to confirm what I presume to be some basic Christian beliefs regarding God...... And Man.
    I shall rely upon the many Christians (from a number of Christian sects) who frequent this message board to correct me if I should error while attempting to do so.

    Basic Christian beliefs of all Christians, regardless of their preferred sect.
    GOD is ALL-POWERFUL, ALL-KNOWING, and INFINITE.
    GOD is the CREATOR of everything that exists, has ever existed, or will ever exist.
    GOD created MAN and gave every man the ability to know right and wrong.
    MAN is a finite being who can never KNOW or UNDERSTAND the "mind" of his INFINITE GOD.
    GOD is GOOD.
    GOD is JUST.

    I shall now pause for a time......
    To allow any Christian the opportunity to challenge my assumptions regarding the above listed basic Christian beliefs.
    And after any such challenge(s), or any agreement, or an agreement by silence, I shall procede along my intended path.

    I cannot imagine any Christian challenge that might hinder my continuation of this thread/thought...... But what do I know?
    And I cannot imagine any Cristian ever caring much about a possibly novel "thought" from whatever remains of my finite little grey cells...... But what the hay!
    At least no Christian will be able to accuse and convict me of allowing an idle mind to turn into a devil's workshop. :icon_wink:

    Cheers.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said...... But I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinoza View Post
    I would like to confirm what I presume to be some basic Christian beliefs regarding God...... And Man.

    GOD created MAN and gave every man the ability to know right and wrong.
    MAN is a finite being who can never KNOW or UNDERSTAND the "mind" of his INFINITE GOD.
    My first thought is that this list is a list of attributes of the Judeo-Christian conception of God as there is no mention of Christ...which is what truly sets the Christian God apart as he is one essence made manifest in the three persons of the Father (The G-d of Israel), the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. Apart from the two issues I will raise, the attributes you've listed are SOME of the attributes of the Father and his relationship to His creation, but it should be said from the outset that the list is by no means comprehensive. Depending on where the conversation goes, other attributes may become pertinent.

    Now on to the issues.

    1. There are men that are created in the image of God that are not capable of knowing right from wrong. Among them are the insane and the severely mentally handicapped. Those would be minor exceptions to your statement. A MAJOR exception to your statement is that there is no evidence that Adam and Eve knew right from wrong until they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They had not been exposed to evil until then and there is NO evidence that Eve recognized the serpent as the Evil one. So, I would contend with this claim.

    2. 1 Corinthians 13:9-12 says, "For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." This verse seems to contradict the second statement that I've quoted. I would also like to point out that man is finite in that he had a beginning. Christian belief is that men will either spend eternity with the Father or they will spend eternity separated from the Father, but men are eternal even though, having a beginning, they can never be infinite.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    I hadn't seen Spin posting on here. I have been avoiding the pawlitics section since I had more entertaining things to follow on BBB. Missed the dawg pit. Welcom back Spin. Good to have you back.

    The only thing I would disagree with is :
    MAN is a finite being who can never Fully KNOW or UNDERSTAND the "mind" of his INFINITE GOD
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    I would say that not all men know right from wrong. Only "saved" men know right from wrong. One can not truly know right from wrong until he dies to himself becomes alive in Christ.

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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by westdawg View Post
    I would say that not all men know right from wrong. Only "saved" men know right from wrong. One can not truly know right from wrong until he dies to himself becomes alive in Christ.
    I think humans can know right from wrong even though they've never heard of a God before.

    The question is whether their "right" as learned from society is as "right" as somebody who is saved. There are many differences across different religions on what is exactly right.

    So there are many different ways of perceiving "right."

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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by westdawg View Post
    I would say that not all men know right from wrong. Only "saved" men know right from wrong. One can not truly know right from wrong until he dies to himself becomes alive in Christ.
    You describe righteousness and the sanctification process.

    Many non believers hold moral absolutes. Those vary depending on culture.
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by maddawg View Post
    Those vary depending on culture.
    Quite a few of them do, but amongst almost all cultures there are a few universally accepted things. CS Lewis (among many others) used these "universal" truths to argue for the existence of God (the moral argument).
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    Quite a few of them do, but amongst almost all cultures there are a few universally accepted things. CS Lewis (among many others) used these "universal" truths to argue for the existence of God (the moral argument).
    And I would argue that that they argue for the universality of reason.
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    There is another thread, or two or three! about morals, religion, etc... so, feel free to switch to one of those threads if you choose to respond. But...

    I have yet to see ANYONE give me a satisfactory answer to my question(s) about the root of moral convictions. Basically, if there is no God, then where do morals come from? Was that the invention of some early Greek philosopher who was merely expressing his personal feelings? If yes, then why should any of us be expected to embrace them? Who is (was) he that I should give a rat's ass about his personal point of view?

    I hope I am expressing my "questions" properly, so you'll see where I am going with this. Basically, I (and neither should you) cannot argue with the teachings of a supreme being, God. But, I certainly am free to reject ANY opinions and points of view of a peer, a mere mortal human being, like myself.

    So, I ask atheists, why should ANY of us adhere to anything other than what we personally view as right/acceptable, if not for a God?

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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    So, I ask atheists, why should ANY of us adhere to anything other than what we personally view as right/acceptable, if not for a God?
    Are Christians and atheists really any different in that regard? You personally view the Christian morals as right/acceptable and I view others morals as right/acceptable.
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Are Christians and atheists really any different in that regard? You personally view the Christian morals as right/acceptable and I view others morals as right/acceptable.
    Because you and I, and every other human, are peers, equals. If individuals can establish for themselves what is right/acceptable, then it's katie-bar-the-door, and no one else has the right to criticize. But, if morals derive from the wishes of a higher being, God, then none of us have the right to dispute it. So, there is a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE difference between Christians and atheists.

    I am curious, what "others morals" which I assume you meant others' (possessive) morals, are you referring to? And, specifically, what morals are different than Christian morals, which apparently you reject, and what "morals" are there that you accept, that you say Christians would reject?

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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    Because you and I, and every other human, are peers, equals. If individuals can establish for themselves what is right/acceptable, then it's katie-bar-the-door, and no one else has the right to criticize. But, if morals derive from the wishes of a higher being, God, then none of us have the right to dispute it. So, there is a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE difference between Christians and atheists.

    I am curious, what "others morals" which I assume you meant others' (possessive) morals, are you referring to? And, specifically, what morals are different than Christian morals, which apparently you reject, and what "morals" are there that you accept, that you say Christians would reject?
    The purpose of "morals" is to provide a guide to action - to achieve that which is good and to avoid that which is bad. If you believe that there is nothing beyond this life, then this life is all that matters. Moreover, since you do not get to live another person's life, your life is the most important. Accordingly, that which is "good" is that which sustains your life and/or maximizes your ability to enjoy your life. A moral atheist should therefore have a moral code that is designed to avoid actions that would hurt his ability to enjoy his life and carry out actions that sustain his life. If we always knew the consequences of our actions, then morals would be irrelevant to the atheist. The code would just be - do good and avoid bad. Living in a social world introduces complexities in cause and effect making it more difficult to always know the results of our actions. The moral code is therefore quasi-scientifically constructed, it is based on understanding what types of actions are positive (i.e., most likely to result in furthering the good) and which are bad (i.e., more likely to create personal injury).

    So morals are not "relative" to me. There is a correct moral code and the rest are incorrect. I do not think you can know the correct moral code by following someone else's edict, though. You have the responsibility of figuring it out yourself.

    As to what would be different in my moral code and a Christian's...there are many things, but I am staunchly against self-sacrifice for the good of others when the net result for oneself is loss of the ability to enjoy one's own life. That would be bad/evil in my moral code, but is celebrated in the Christian code. Some things that appear to be self-sacrifice; however, could be calculated to achieve a net positive for oneself (a little present pain for even greater future gain), but that is not what I am talking about.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    but I am staunchly against self-sacrifice for the good of others when the net result for oneself is loss of the ability to enjoy one's own life.

    Well marriage and family are out then.:icon_wink:
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by maddawg View Post
    but I am staunchly against self-sacrifice for the good of others when the net result for oneself is loss of the ability to enjoy one's own life.

    Well marriage and family are out then.:icon_wink:
    ......
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    There is another thread, or two or three! about morals, religion, etc... so, feel free to switch to one of those threads if you choose to respond. But...

    I have yet to see ANYONE give me a satisfactory answer to my question(s) about the root of moral convictions. Basically, if there is no God, then where do morals come from? Was that the invention of some early Greek philosopher who was merely expressing his personal feelings? If yes, then why should any of us be expected to embrace them? Who is (was) he that I should give a rat's ass about his personal point of view?

    I hope I am expressing my "questions" properly, so you'll see where I am going with this. Basically, I (and neither should you) cannot argue with the teachings of a supreme being, God. But, I certainly am free to reject ANY opinions and points of view of a peer, a mere mortal human being, like myself.

    So, I ask atheists, why should ANY of us adhere to anything other than what we personally view as right/acceptable, if not for a God?
    I wonder......
    If Dawg80 has ever read Plato's The Apology?
    I mean the original text...... Not some peer's/mere mortal being's condensed opinions/interpretation.

    I am not Greek literate, so I had to settle for an English translation by a "peer".
    But that's OK......
    I am free to "reject" or ACCEPT anything I like...... Even if I know nothing.

    Cheers.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said...... But I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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