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Thread: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

  1. #16
    Champ Spinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant future Spinoza's Avatar
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    There is another thread, or two or three! about morals, religion, etc... so, feel free to switch to one of those threads if you choose to respond. But...

    I have yet to see ANYONE give me a satisfactory answer to my question(s) about the root of moral convictions. Basically, if there is no God, then where do morals come from? Was that the invention of some early Greek philosopher who was merely expressing his personal feelings? If yes, then why should any of us be expected to embrace them? Who is (was) he that I should give a rat's ass about his personal point of view?

    I hope I am expressing my "questions" properly, so you'll see where I am going with this. Basically, I (and neither should you) cannot argue with the teachings of a supreme being, God. But, I certainly am free to reject ANY opinions and points of view of a peer, a mere mortal human being, like myself.

    So, I ask atheists, why should ANY of us adhere to anything other than what we personally view as right/acceptable, if not for a God?
    A conundrum......
    (regarding the first paragraph of the above post)
    That I suspect no dawg, save Dawg80, may be capable of solving.

    *If a fellow has another fellow, whom he has demonstrated disdain for previously/repeatedly, on dawg IGNORE......
    *And...... "There is another thread, or two or three! about morals, religion, etc... so, feel free to switch to one of those threads if you choose to respond. But..."
    *Why would such a fellow CHOOSE this thread......
    Authored by THAT other fellow......
    To fertilize a meadow that has yet to plant its first significant on topic seed?

    And some dawg authors may wonder why I habitually drink to excess? :icon_wink: :icon_wink:

    Cheers.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said...... But I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  2. #17
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    The purpose of "morals" is to provide a guide to action - to achieve that which is good and to avoid that which is bad. If you believe that there is nothing beyond this life, then this life is all that matters. Moreover, since you do not get to live another person's life, your life is the most important. Accordingly, that which is "good" is that which sustains your life and/or maximizes your ability to enjoy your life. A moral atheist should therefore have a moral code that is designed to avoid actions that would hurt his ability to enjoy his life and carry out actions that sustain his life. If we always knew the consequences of our actions, then morals would be irrelevant to the atheist. The code would just be - do good and avoid bad. Living in a social world introduces complexities in cause and effect making it more difficult to always know the results of our actions. The moral code is therefore quasi-scientifically constructed, it is based on understanding what types of actions are positive (i.e., most likely to result in furthering the good) and which are bad (i.e., more likely to create personal injury).

    So morals are not "relative" to me. There is a correct moral code and the rest are incorrect. I do not think you can know the correct moral code by following someone else's edict, though. You have the responsibility of figuring it out yourself.

    As to what would be different in my moral code and a Christian's...there are many things, but I am staunchly against self-sacrifice for the good of others when the net result for oneself is loss of the ability to enjoy one's own life. That would be bad/evil in my moral code, but is celebrated in the Christian code. Some things that appear to be self-sacrifice; however, could be calculated to achieve a net positive for oneself (a little present pain for even greater future gain), but that is not what I am talking about.
    I suspect, Gus......
    That you may have read some/much of Aristotle, Kant, Jeremy Bentham, John Stuart Mill, and ALL OF AYN on this topic before refining it to your current ADAMANT argument......
    (I just noticed the new Czar proclamation beneath your avatar) :icon_wink:
    But perhaps we could tweek it a bit further!

    The question is......
    HERE? Or does it deserve its own FLAMING thread?

    Would you not agree that such a topic must FLAME much heat?

    I'd prefer a separate thread dedicated to sorting as much venom as possible from even the laziest logic.

    How about you?

    Would you care to begin?

    If you opt to defer to me......
    I shall title it "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly".

    Cheers and goodnight.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said...... But I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  3. #18
    Champ detltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond repute
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    The purpose of "morals" is to provide a guide to action - to achieve that which is good and to avoid that which is bad. If you believe that there is nothing beyond this life, then this life is all that matters. Moreover, since you do not get to live another person's life, your life is the most important. Accordingly, that which is "good" is that which sustains your life and/or maximizes your ability to enjoy your life. A moral atheist should therefore have a moral code that is designed to avoid actions that would hurt his ability to enjoy his life and carry out actions that sustain his life. If we always knew the consequences of our actions, then morals would be irrelevant to the atheist. The code would just be - do good and avoid bad. Living in a social world introduces complexities in cause and effect making it more difficult to always know the results of our actions. The moral code is therefore quasi-scientifically constructed, it is based on understanding what types of actions are positive (i.e., most likely to result in furthering the good) and which are bad (i.e., more likely to create personal injury).

    So morals are not "relative" to me. There is a correct moral code and the rest are incorrect. I do not think you can know the correct moral code by following someone else's edict, though. You have the responsibility of figuring it out yourself.

    As to what would be different in my moral code and a Christian's...there are many things, but I am staunchly against self-sacrifice for the good of others when the net result for oneself is loss of the ability to enjoy one's own life. That would be bad/evil in my moral code, but is celebrated in the Christian code. Some things that appear to be self-sacrifice; however, could be calculated to achieve a net positive for oneself (a little present pain for even greater future gain), but that is not what I am talking about.
    This is a well thought out and well written response on this topic. To expand on this:

    It may not be in an athiests best interests to steal because they could get caught and incur punishment. Even if they think they might get away with it, if there is doubt that doubt could also cause fear and doubt in the person. However if the opportunity to steal something you want presents itself and there is no chance you will get caught then the athiest should steal, correct?

    Similarly if the opportunity to kill someone who is causing you grief presents itself when you could likely pass it off as an accident then why not kill that person.

    So I would like to pose a question. Which would you rather have working for you, an Athiest or a Christian?

  4. #19
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    Which would you rather have working for you, an Athiest or a Christian?
    Whoever is most qualified.
    Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
    “It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”

  5. #20
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinoza View Post
    (I just noticed the new Czar proclamation beneath your avatar) :icon_wink:
    You noticed it before I did.
    Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
    “It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”

  6. #21
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinoza View Post

    The question is......
    HERE? Or does it deserve its own FLAMING thread?

    Would you not agree that such a topic must FLAME much heat?

    I'd prefer a separate thread dedicated to sorting as much venom as possible from even the laziest logic.

    How about you?

    Would you care to begin?

    If you opt to defer to me......
    I shall title it "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly".

    Cheers and goodnight.
    Wherever you would like. We have discussed it before, I believe, but the thread is outside of your sandbox.
    Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
    “It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”

  7. #22
    Champ FishingBack has a reputation beyond reputeFishingBack has a reputation beyond reputeFishingBack has a reputation beyond reputeFishingBack has a reputation beyond reputeFishingBack has a reputation beyond reputeFishingBack has a reputation beyond reputeFishingBack has a reputation beyond reputeFishingBack has a reputation beyond reputeFishingBack has a reputation beyond reputeFishingBack has a reputation beyond reputeFishingBack has a reputation beyond repute FishingBack's Avatar
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by maddawg View Post
    but I am staunchly against self-sacrifice for the good of others when the net result for oneself is loss of the ability to enjoy one's own life.

    Well marriage and family are out then.:icon_wink:
    Unless you enjoy them more than the freedom you give up.

  8. #23
    Champ RhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond repute RhythmDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by maddawg View Post
    but I am staunchly against self-sacrifice for the good of others when the net result for oneself is loss of the ability to enjoy one's own life.

    Well marriage and family are out then.:icon_wink:
    And furthermore, how about giving your life for a child or a spouse... or for your country even?

  9. #24
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Definitely not country.
    Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
    “It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”

  10. #25
    Champ RhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond reputeRhythmDawg has a reputation beyond repute RhythmDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Definitely not country.
    So how much enjoyment would be in your life right now if everyone in history subscribed to the same theory? Would you deduce then that perhaps that is not the wisest of lifestyles? Perhaps you prefer to live off everyone else's self-sacrifice while not offering the same in return. Sounds very liberal in concept to me.

  11. #26
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmDawg View Post
    So how much enjoyment would be in your life right now if everyone in history subscribed to the same theory? Would you deduce then that perhaps that is not the wisest of lifestyles? Perhaps you prefer to live off everyone else's self-sacrifice while not offering the same in return. Sounds very liberal in concept to me.
    If I were ever faced with the need to fight to protect my life or liberty, it may change things, but I would evaluate the risks and benefits to me.
    Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
    “It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”

  12. #27
    Champ Spinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant future Spinoza's Avatar
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    This is a well thought out and well written response on this topic. To expand on this:

    It may not be in an athiests best interests to steal because they could get caught and incur punishment. Even if they think they might get away with it, if there is doubt that doubt could also cause fear and doubt in the person. However if the opportunity to steal something you want presents itself and there is no chance you will get caught then the athiest should steal, correct?

    Similarly if the opportunity to kill someone who is causing you grief presents itself when you could likely pass it off as an accident then why not kill that person.

    So I would like to pose a question. Which would you rather have working for you, an Athiest or a Christian?
    To expand just a tad further......
    From a fellow who is neither an athiest or a Christian.

    There are Christians who are able to be as FREE of any notion of "this world" morality as any athiest, if given your "will not get caught by mortal man" certainty/assumption.

    They are the self-proclaimed SAVED christians who......
    Claim they have "ACCEPTED" Jesus......
    Regularly read, cite and "unerringly" interpret BOTH testaments of their bible......
    And DEMAND near perfection from others......
    While forgiving themselves EASILY for theft, or murder, or coveting, or any other moral lapse......
    With little more than a PRAISE JESUS effort.

    Cheers.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said...... But I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  13. #28
    Champ Spinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant future Spinoza's Avatar
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Wherever you would like. We have discussed it before, I believe, but the thread is outside of your sandbox.
    If there is a politics board (other sandbox) thread......
    That has already exhausted this topic, I have no need to beat any such dead donkey.

    I do not recall any such thread. But if you lead me to it, I promise to read it top to bottom before deciding if I my thoughts regarding a Good, Bad and Ugly flamer's thread may escape any echoes of redundancy.

    Cheers.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said...... But I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  14. #29
    Champ Spinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant future Spinoza's Avatar
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmDawg View Post
    So how much enjoyment would be in your life right now if everyone in history subscribed to the same theory? Would you deduce then that perhaps that is not the wisest of lifestyles? Perhaps you prefer to live off everyone else's self-sacrifice while not offering the same in return. Sounds very liberal in concept to me.
    Your question PRESUMES......
    That everyone in history has not subjectivey subscibed to the same theory!

    If I decide to author a flaming Good, Bad, and Ugly thread, I sincerely hope you will eagerly bring all such thoughts to any ensuing discussion/debate. :icon_wink:

    Cheers.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said...... But I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  15. #30
    Champ Spinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant future Spinoza's Avatar
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    Re: Might YOUR Christian God be a multitasker......

    Quote Originally Posted by FishingBack View Post
    Unless you enjoy them more than the freedom you give up.
    AH......
    If only there was any way to know, or even wisely suspect the certainty of mutually exclusive alternatives!

    Cheers and goodnight.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said...... But I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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