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Thread: Boise State... the new Marshall...

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    Boise State... the new Marshall...

    Marshall Football
    1990: 6-5
    1991: 11-4 (#8)
    1992: 12-3 (#6)
    1993: 11-4 (#9)
    1994: 12-2 (#2)
    1995: 12-3 (#6)
    1996: 15-0 (#1)
    joined FBS
    1997: 10-3
    1998: 12-1
    1999: 13-0 (#10, would have earned an automatic BCS bowl berth under post-2005 rules)
    2000: 8-5
    2001: 11-2 (#21)
    2002: 11-2 (#19)
    received invitation to C-USA
    2003: 8-4
    2004: 6-6
    C-USA membership begins
    2005: 4-7
    2006: 5-7
    2007: 3-9
    2008: 4-8
    2009: 7-6

    Marshall finished ranked in the Top 25 in 3 of the 4 years prior to receiving their invite from C-USA. They went undefeated in 1 of of those seasons and would have received an automatic BCS bowl berth under today's rules. Marshall had double digit wins in 11 of 12 previous seasons before receiving their C-USA invite. They started the decline immediately after receiving the invite and just this year managed their first winning season since joining C-USA.

    The only thing Marshall offered C-USA was their winning football program. They are the only school in C-USA not designated as a national research university. They don't have a big media market, fan base, or athletics budget. They don't fit in the geographic football of the other C-USA schools or offer fertile recruiting territory. They haven't made an NCAA men's basketball tournament appearance since 1987. They only had football.

    Boise State Football
    1998: 6-5
    1999: 10-3
    2000: 10-2
    WAC membership begins
    2001: 8-4
    2002: 12-1 (#12)
    2003: 13-1 (#15)
    2004: 11-1 (#13)
    2005: 9-4
    2006: 13-0 (#6, Fiesta Bowl)
    2007: 10-3
    2008: 12-1 (#13)
    2009: 14-0 (#4, Fiesta Bowl)

    What else does Boise offer to other conferences besides a good football team? They are truck driving U, and they don't have a big alumni base. They don't have a big athletics budget or fan base. Boise is the same size as Shreveport and is not overflowing with FBS recruits. They've made 1 NCAA men's basketball tournament appearance since 1994. What do they offer besides a good football team? What happens if Peterson leaves or if they start to play tougher competition week in and week out? This is why the Mountain West is reluctant to invite them, and why Boise may not be the MWC's first replacement choice... because they may turn into what Marshall is today...

  2. #2
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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    What happens when Peterson leaves???

    What happened when Boise lost Houston Nutt to a BSC school? What happened when Boise lost Dirk Koetter to a BCS school? What happened when Boise lost Dan Hawkins to a BCS school?? What happens when Peterson leaves? You can probably add the next guy to the list I just gave you.

    Boise also has a good market. Is it huge? No it is more medium sized. But they OWN IT. That town is all Boise St. Imagine if S-Port didn't like LSU but just LOVED Tech. That's what Boise has. They have nice facilities and the money to improve them. Not just the football stadium either. Taco Bell Arena is a very good BBall facility. They usually finish much higher than Tech in the conference cup rankings for overall sports.

    True their academics suck but they are IMO in a much better position than Marshall.

    The MWC will invite them and probably has already. The MWC doesn't give a rats ass about academics. Only $$$$$. They are not in right now because they haven't proven to the MWC that they will consistently bring in more money and MWC abhors splitting the pie. All this talk about acaemics being the reason they are not in the MWC is all BS. Now it could eventually keep them out of the PAC10 if they ever go a superconference because they REALLY do care about academics.

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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog13 View Post
    What happens when Peterson leaves???

    What happened when Boise lost Houston Nutt to a BSC school? What happened when Boise lost Dirk Koetter to a BCS school? What happened when Boise lost Dan Hawkins to a BCS school?? What happens when Peterson leaves? You can probably add the next guy to the list I just gave you.

    Boise also has a good market. Is it huge? No it is more medium sized. But they OWN IT. That town is all Boise St. Imagine if S-Port didn't like LSU but just LOVED Tech. That's what Boise has. They have nice facilities and the money to improve them. Not just the football stadium either. Taco Bell Arena is a very good BBall facility. They usually finish much higher than Tech in the conference cup rankings for overall sports.

    True their academics suck but they are IMO in a much better position than Marshall.

    The MWC will invite them and probably has already. The MWC doesn't give a rats ass about academics. Only $$$$$. They are not in right now because they haven't proven to the MWC that they will consistently bring in more money and MWC abhors splitting the pie. All this talk about acaemics being the reason they are not in the MWC is all BS. Now it could eventually keep them out of the PAC10 if they ever go a superconference because they REALLY do care about academics.

    I would amend your comment only slightly. What if the people within a 30 mile radius of Ruston just loved Tech? We wouldn't even need to dominate the S'Port market. Look at Auburn. They have a much larger alumni group, so that does skew things a bit. However, Auburn-Opelika is about the size of Monroe-West Monroe. Everyone else in the state is a Bama fan, but AU still fills the stadium every Saturday.

  4. #4
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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog13 View Post
    What happens when Peterson leaves???

    What happened when Boise lost Houston Nutt to a BSC school? What happened when Boise lost Dirk Koetter to a BCS school? What happened when Boise lost Dan Hawkins to a BCS school?? What happens when Peterson leaves? You can probably add the next guy to the list I just gave you.

    Boise also has a good market. Is it huge? No it is more medium sized. But they OWN IT. That town is all Boise St. Imagine if S-Port didn't like LSU but just LOVED Tech. That's what Boise has. They have nice facilities and the money to improve them. Not just the football stadium either. Taco Bell Arena is a very good BBall facility. They usually finish much higher than Tech in the conference cup rankings for overall sports.

    True their academics suck but they are IMO in a much better position than Marshall.

    The MWC will invite them and probably has already. The MWC doesn't give a rats ass about academics. Only $$$$$. They are not in right now because they haven't proven to the MWC that they will consistently bring in more money and MWC abhors splitting the pie. All this talk about acaemics being the reason they are not in the MWC is all BS. Now it could eventually keep them out of the PAC10 if they ever go a superconference because they REALLY do care about academics.
    Houston Nutt coached there 1 season and went 5-6. Koetter, Hawakins, and Peterson coached Boise in the Big West and WAC. If they move to a more competitive conference with 3 Top 25 teams and a stronger middle tier, it's not likely they would post double digit winning seasons every year. Boise would have the 8th highest budget in the MWC. What would happen if Boise gets 1 bad coach, and they end up like Marshall? They wouldn't bring that much to the table, and you are stuck with them. Hawaii and Fresno bring a lot more to the table as far as long-term sustainability with their larger budgets and bigger fan bases. And they play baseball.

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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    Good points Dawg06.

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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg06 View Post
    Houston Nutt coached there 1 season and went 5-6. Koetter, Hawakins, and Peterson coached Boise in the Big West and WAC. If they move to a more competitive conference with 3 Top 25 teams and a stronger middle tier, it's not likely they would post double digit winning seasons every year. Boise would have the 8th highest budget in the MWC. What would happen if Boise gets 1 bad coach, and they end up like Marshall? They wouldn't bring that much to the table, and you are stuck with them. Hawaii and Fresno bring a lot more to the table as far as long-term sustainability with their larger budgets and bigger fan bases. And they play baseball.

    Yes, but by moving to the MWC, they would make more money and get better recruiting classes. The move "up" to the MWC would count for something. Of course they may become the next Marshall, but I would not bet against them continuing their streak of success. Their admin gets it and seems dedicated to moving up the ladder and doing whatever it takes to do so.

    By the way, I suspect that if they expanded the seating of their stadium to 50K, they would sell it out. As Bigdog said, they have a huge backing in Boise.

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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg06 View Post
    Houston Nutt coached there 1 season and went 5-6. Koetter, Hawakins, and Peterson coached Boise in the Big West and WAC. If they move to a more competitive conference with 3 Top 25 teams and a stronger middle tier, it's not likely they would post double digit winning seasons every year. Boise would have the 8th highest budget in the MWC. What would happen if Boise gets 1 bad coach, and they end up like Marshall? They wouldn't bring that much to the table, and you are stuck with them. Hawaii and Fresno bring a lot more to the table as far as long-term sustainability with their larger budgets and bigger fan bases. And they play baseball.
    But it's Boise that's being invited. Kinda reminds you that football is King.

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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    The other difference is the scale factor. Finishing the season #4 or #6 is a little different than finishing #21 or #19. It's much easier to keep the momentum going when you actually have those BCS skins on the wall. It would have really helped Marshall to have had a non-AQ BCS bid back in the day.

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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    Boise is #1 in Idaho, Marshall is #2 in West Virginia. There is also a lot closer proximity to other AQ schools for Marshall.

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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    To me, Boise has, indeed, been a "one trick pony" over this last decade, but folks are sure happy to turn out an watch it perform. It has kept them as a headliner in the college football circus. We should learn that trick and teach it to our "pony" er... dog.

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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    Quote Originally Posted by LookingForResults View Post
    But it's Boise that's being invited. Kinda reminds you that football is King.
    Boise is getting invited? Says who? It's just the media and message boards speculating.

    Hawaii and Fresno State have more money, more support, more alumni, bigger media markets, better recruiting territory, better academics, baseball programs, and a history with the MWC schools. And those things can't change, which means that those schools offer more to the MWC as far as long term sustainability. On the other hand, Boise State only offers a good football program, and that can change very quickly.

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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg06 View Post
    Boise is getting invited? Says who? It's just the media and message boards speculating.

    Hawaii and Fresno State have more money, more support, more alumni, bigger media markets, better recruiting territory, better academics, baseball programs, and a history with the MWC schools. And those things can't change, which means that those schools offer more to the MWC as far as long term sustainability. On the other hand, Boise State only offers a good football program, and that can change very quickly.

    Boise is getting invited to MWC as per Fox and Company's personal source.

  13. #13
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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    Quote Originally Posted by inudesu View Post
    The other difference is the scale factor. Finishing the season #4 or #6 is a little different than finishing #21 or #19. It's much easier to keep the momentum going when you actually have those BCS skins on the wall. It would have really helped Marshall to have had a non-AQ BCS bid back in the day.
    Very true.

    What would Boise's reputation be today had they not received the 2006 Fiesta Bowl bid? In their last 6 bowl games, Boise has gone 2-4... with their only 2 wins in the Fiesta Bowl and losses in all 4 non-BCS bowls... If they hadn't received the auto bids, people would be comparing them to Notre Dame... racking up wins playing a weak schedule, being way over-rated, losing all their bowl games, and undeserving of playing in BCS bowls...

    If they had the current rules regarding non-AQ conferences when the BCS was instituted in 1998... automatic BCS bowl bids would have gone to...
    - Tulane (C-USA) in 1998
    - Marshall (MAC) in 1999
    - TCU (WAC) in 2000
    - Maimi OH (MAC) in 2003
    - TCU (MWC) in 2005

    Imagine what a BCS bowl bid could have done for Tulane??? They've only had 2 winning seasons since their 1998 undefeated campaign and are struggling to put 5K Tulane fans in the Dome on Saturdays.... 7 consecutive losing seasons for the Green Ripple...

    And TCU? This past season would have been their 3rd BCS bowl... Would the Frogs have been playing for a Mythical National Championship a few months ago if they had received those 2 previous BCS bids?? Texas and OU are the only Big XII schools with more BCS appearances...

    And the MAC would have played in 2 BCS bowls before the MWC played in 1.... What would that have done for the MAC?

    And the Sun Belt is the only conference to to never even have a team eligible for an at-large BCS bowl bid, much less an automatic BCS bid... lol

  14. #14
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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    Quote Originally Posted by Allgood View Post
    Boise is getting invited to MWC as per Fox and Company's personal source.
    I'll believe it when it happens...

    If I were Craig Thompson, my pecking order would be...
    1. Hawaii
    2. Houston
    3. Fresno State
    4. Boise State
    5. UTEP
    6. Nevada

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    Re: Boise State... the new Marshall...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg06 View Post
    I'll believe it when it happens...

    If I were Craig Thompson, my pecking order would be...
    1. Hawaii
    2. Houston
    3. Fresno State
    4. Boise State
    5. UTEP
    6. Nevada
    Not mine -

    1. Boise
    2. Houston
    3. Nevada
    4. Hawaii
    5. Fresno
    6. UTEP


    You go for the SEXY girl with your first pick - she might be a one trick pony, but that one trick is more than worth its price of admission

    NO ONE wants Hawaii and their travel and NO ONE wants Fresno and their 1000lbs of baggage

    UTEP is more NM than Texas and gets you are sharing the market with NMST
    ''Don't be a bad dagh..."

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