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Originally Posted by Yarfunkle
You must forget that there are people in this world who HATE US simply because we offer a different way of life. They cannot be reasoned with. Talking with them and trying to understand them is not the answer for some. Some radicals believe that you MUST be Muslim or one of two things happen, They make you a slave, or they kill you. Period. No other choices.
How is that for knowledge?
The problem is that there are different definitions of Christian.
To much of the world, if you are American, you are "Christian." So whatever the U.S. government does, Christians do.
Some pollsters allow you to self-associate. If you say you are Christian, they count you.
Some adhere to a (probably variable depending on who is asking) basic association with traditional, orthodox, historical Christian belief.
Quite a few churches would rule out anyone who doesn't meet some doctrinal or practical standard (not baptized, not immersed, not member of that church, not adhering to a creed or confession or statement of faith, etc.)
And this isn't just some retroactive thing. I'm pretty sure the Eastern Orthodox Christians weren't too crazy about the 4th crusade. You think they didn't condemn it as "unchristian?" Of course they did.
Protestants got burned in the Inquisition. I'm pretty sure they didn't think it was all that Christ-like an activity.
Just because an act was done by a Christian, doesn't make it a Christian act. Just because it was done by a church doesn't make it a Christian act. And just because you claim to be a Christian (or a church, or the church) doesn't make that the case either.
There is nothing wrong or unusual or surprising about a modern (or historical) Christian condemning past (or current) acts perpetuated by others claiming to represent Christianity as wrong or unrepresentative.
Last edited by inudesu; 04-26-2011 at 09:43 AM.
What establishment?
Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle
I'd wager it's more related to our general enlightenment. With more knowledge comes more power.
Denile......
And some , like Obama, think they are a Christian just by attending "Christian" church or walking through a door to one. Franklin Graham, on a recent Sunday show, alluded to this after speaking with Obama.
Thanks for detailing that out for JuBru! I didn't have the patience.
Is a river in Egypt.
And no, it's not denial. What's one of the main differences in Christians today as opposed to Christians in the dark ages?
Knowledge/enlightenment.
That's not how it works, and you know it. These acts are associated as Christian acts. Them not being Christ-like doesn't change them being done in the name of Christ for Christianity. Adding a little disclaimer doesn't change them being associated. In doing so, you are making the statement that Christians have done no wrong, ever.
Pick any sect, but Christianity itself. The major one, for most of Christian history, is the Roman Catholic church obviously. But Protestants have done their fair share of atrocities as well (example: Salem Witch Trials). I am not separating too much between them all because they all, in essense, share the same beliefs (the practice of those beliefs is the main difference, imo).
That absolutely is how it works. Even before the word Christian was a word, different people have claimed that they represented Christ despite the fact that their actions were directly contradictory of Christ's words and of the actions of other people claiming to be followers of Christ.
Not only do I not have to accept that they all represent Christianity, to do so would be impossible because we're often talking about two directly opposing views. All I can do is try to develop my own view of what the teaching of Christ is and what previous actions best exemplify that.
I'm not trying to absolve other Christians (or "Christians") of wrongs that they've done. I'm not trying to say that you have to be perfect to be a Christian. I don't think that every bad thing ever done was done by a non-Christian. I'm not even saying that others have (and do) sometimes seen the actions of a given person (or group) and (wrongly, in my view - like you're doing here) tried to make those actions representative of the faith.
If all you are saying is that sometimes people want to make the Crusades, Inquisition, and so forth representative of normal Christian faith then I think you're right.
But I think they are wrong.
Couldn't you just as easily say reformation? Show me where the Christians of the dark ages were acting in accordance with the Scripture and you'll have an argument. If they are acting contrary to the Scripture and contrary to Christ, I can only logically conclude that they were not following the tenants of Christianity when they did what they did.
Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle
That's how far off based you are on this one.
Originally Posted by Yarfunkle
Is a river in Egypt.
And no, it's not denial. What's one of the main differences in Christians today as opposed to Christians in the dark ages?
Knowledge/enlightenment.
.....and what's the difference in muslims today as opposed to the dark ages....... not much.
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