NBA Playoffs

[Bigdog13]

I continue to see and hear this, but it's just wrong. They only have one ELITE player in Rose, while the Heat has two. But Boozer and Deng are both all-star caliber scorers. They just aren't all-star caliber explosive athletes like Rose, Lebron and Wade.

You can be a good scorer without being able to create your own shot. Basically to go off and be at your best you need some help. Someone to facilitate for you. Deng definitely falls in that category and Boozer somewhat does. Boozer is having a poor playoff run overall. Both Lebron and Wade can create their own shot. Rose obviously can as well. The Bulls desperately need a quality 2 guard that can do this. He doesn't have to be another Dwayne Wade but he has to be a lot better than what they have now. As far as playoff teams go, the 2 position would have to be considered well below average by all accounts.

[dhussdawg]

I continue to see and hear this, but it's just wrong. They only have one ELITE player in Rose, while the Heat has two. But Boozer and Deng are both all-star caliber scorers. They just aren't all-star caliber explosive athletes like Rose, Lebron and Wade.

Noah and Bogans useless. Boozer can create his own shot to an extent (not as good as he used to be). I havent seen Deng create his own shot yet, only making wide open J's when Rose drives. Korver has been cold in the Heat series, and he has always been a wide open J guy. If Rose isnt creating, the Bulls cant score, period. It was brutally obvious in the fourth quarter and OT last night. Chicago looked good that first game because they got so many putbacks out of Noah and Gibson, the Heat adjusted and Chicago has had trouble since.

[GatorDawg]

Noah and Bogans useless. Boozer can create his own shot to an extent (not as good as he used to be). I havent seen Deng create his own shot yet, only making wide open J's when Rose drives. Korver has been cold in the Heat series, and he has always been a wide open J guy. If Rose isnt creating, the Bulls cant score, period. It was brutally obvious in the fourth quarter and OT last night. Chicago looked good that first game because they got so many putbacks out of Noah and Gibson, the Heat adjusted and Chicago has had trouble since.

Then how do you explain how the Bulls have had a higher +/- all season and most postseason when Rose is on the bench?

[GatorDawg]

You're missing the point. It is impossible for an unbiased person to look at a player who is one of only 4 players in the entire history of the NBA playoffs to EVER average 25 and 10 not be a great player. When you add to that the fact that Dirk is one of only 3 players to have EVER in the entire history of the NBA to shoot 50% from the field, 40% from the 3 and 90% from the FT line in a single season it cements the fact that he is great. No sane, level headed person can deny that.

The players he shares those numbers with include Oscar Robertson, Steve Nash, Hakeem Olajuwan, Larry Bird, and Bob Petit. All Hall of Famers and 1 future HOFer.

How can you accomplish those things, when defenses are designed just to stop you, and not be a great player???

If he's not great then your definition of great needs to be completely redefined.

That is such an arbitrary evaluation method. Dirk is a scorer. Of course we will average around 25 points in the playoffs. Dirk is a PF that likes to play the perimeter. Most PFs aren't capable of guarding that kind of player. I'm not saying Dirk doesn't create matchup challenges. But tell me why he doesn't have a ring if teams can't stop him.

[dhussdawg]

Then how do you explain how the Bulls have had a higher +/- all season and most postseason when Rose is on the bench?

Yeh, you are right, they probably shouldnt play him because the 6 minutes he happens to sit out during the game, the team has played okay without him.

Anyway, Dirk is also a good defensive rebounder, he will probably end up in the top 10 of defensive rebounding by the end of his career. His lack of offensive rebounds probably has more to do with him playing on the outside on O. He is as much a small forward as a power forward.

[dhussdawg]

Another thing I dont get about these playoffs: the fuss over Kendrick Perkins. I guess I can see the Celtics had their rotation and you didnt want to screw it up, etc. But that guy just isnt that good. He is a big boy and provides beef in the middle, but he isnt particularly athletic nor is he good on offense. I just dont understand the obsession over him.

[GatorDawg]

Another thing I dont get about these playoffs: the fuss over Kendrick Perkins. I guess I can see the Celtics had their rotation and you didnt want to screw it up, etc. But that guy just isnt that good. He is a big boy and provides beef in the middle, but he isnt particularly athletic nor is he good on offense. I just dont understand the obsession over him.

Because defense is very important. I don't think Perkins has as good of a fit in OKC. In a defensive minded team like Boston, he was a huge part of what they like to accomplish.

[GatorDawg]

Yeh, you are right, they probably shouldnt play him because the 6 minutes he happens to sit out during the game, the team has played okay without him.

Anyway, Dirk is also a good defensive rebounder, he will probably end up in the top 10 of defensive rebounding by the end of his career. His lack of offensive rebounds probably has more to do with him playing on the outside on O. He is as much a small forward as a power forward.

Where do you get these stats from? Dirk needs almost 2000 defensive rebounds to make top 10 in that. And BTW of note, Jason Kidd has 500 less defensive rebounds than Dirk. That is why I said he rebounds like an above average guard, not a 7 footer.

[GatorDawg]

Saw another interesting stat this morning. It was showing average distance of shots from the basket. Dirk detractors act like he camps out at the 3 point line all day. In reality his average distance per shot is about 10 feet. That's 5 feet inside the FT line.

I think in this case Juice is confusing the type of player HE really likes, respects and enjoys watching versus who is great and who is not. It's two very different things. Bird played along side Dr.J. Now Dr. J is much more of a Juice type of player. Very Athletic, can guard multiple positions, etc.... But there is no doubt they were both equally effective. And the numbers show that to be true.

Just to make sure...are you comparing Dirk to Bird? Other than be tall white guys that can shoot, they really had nothing else in common. The effort that Bird put on the defensive side of the ball is much much greater than Dirk.

[dhussdawg]

Where do you get these stats from? Dirk needs almost 2000 defensive rebounds to make top 10 in that. And BTW of note, Jason Kidd has 500 less defensive rebounds than Dirk. That is why I said he rebounds like an above average guard, not a 7 footer.

Yeh, and if he plays 5 more seasons (which is very likely), he will almost certainly get that 2000. Hell, he had well over 400 this year and missed some games due to injury. If he plays until he is 37, he will be very close to top 10. It is called projecting, but I htink you were a marketing major so you might not know much about that...

Jason Kidd has played 4 more years and is probably considered one of the better rebounding guards of all time, given the fact that he is 65th overall in rebounds currently.

[GatorDawg]

Yeh, and if he plays 5 more seasons (which is very likely), he will almost certainly get that 2000. Hell, he had well over 400 this year and missed some games due to injury. If he plays until he is 37, he will be very close to top 10. It is called projecting, but I htink you were a marketing major so you might not know much about that...

Jason Kidd has played 4 more years and is probably considered one of the better rebounding guards of all time, given the fact that he is 65th overall in rebounds currently.

So now Dirk is going to play til hes 37? You do realize that knees on 7 footers don't last that long, right? Keep in mind he likes to play FIBA too.

[Bigdog13]

That is such an arbitrary evaluation method. Dirk is a scorer. Of course we will average around 25 points in the playoffs. Dirk is a PF that likes to play the perimeter. Most PFs aren't capable of guarding that kind of player. I'm not saying Dirk doesn't create matchup challenges. But tell me why he doesn't have a ring if teams can't stop him.

His average shot distance during these playoffs is 10 feet. The FT line is 15 feet. Do you consider 10 feet perimeter? (regular season was 13.1, still 2 feet inside the foul line)

It's not 25. It's 25 and 10. The other 3 players to ever do it are on the NBA top-50 all time list AND Hall of Famers. How is he able to achieve this without being a great player???

[Bigdog13]

That is such an arbitrary evaluation method. Dirk is a scorer. Of course we will average around 25 points in the playoffs. Dirk is a PF that likes to play the perimeter. Most PFs aren't capable of guarding that kind of player. I'm not saying Dirk doesn't create matchup challenges. But tell me why he doesn't have a ring if teams can't stop him.

Because it takes more than one guy to win a ring.

Check this out:

2009 Playoffs vs. Denver

Game 1 Loss Dirk 28 and 10
Game 2 Loss Dirk 35 and 9
Game 3 Loss Dirk 33 and 16
Game 4 Win Dirk 44 and 13
Game 5 Loss Dirk 32 and 10

He led both Denver and Dallas in rebounding and scoring every game that series. I ask you, was it his fault they didn't advance??

Now that was the most glaring example but he has been impressive in almost every series since that Golden State meltdown in 2006. And he was great in most of them before then.

If you want to put it on anyone put it on Cuban, the GM Donnie Nelson, and Coach's Don Nelson and Avery Johnson. Dirk has never really had a good number 2 guy. Josh Howard was a joke. He is dumb as rocks in general but had the lowest basketball IQ I have ever seen. Caron Butler yeah he's pretty good but it's not like McHale with Bird, or Worthy with Magic or Pippen with Jordan those are example of all time greats so I'll go lower down the ladder it's not like Amare with Nash, Garnett and Pierce and so on. Where is Dirks help???

[HogDawg]

I can't control whether athletes are or aren't arrogant. I can root for guys that I like, guys like Kevin Durant. I also can call BS when people like you saying someone who is CLEARLY arrogant isn't.

Excellent point, professor.

I knew Juice was just "faking it" when I read his post calling Kevin Durant arrogant. Durant is not arrogant. Westbrook is arrogant. But not Durant. In fact, I would say Durant is a model citizen and PR dream.

Juice said a bunch of other stupid shit too....but it really doesn't matter. He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. BigDog13 pretty much put a body slam on him.



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[HogDawg]

But Dirk will never be thought of as one of the greatest in the game.

It's funny that you say that. Immediately after the Mavs' game 4 road win over OKC (the big comeback), one of the 4 TV announcers called Dirk a "Top 30 All-Time" NBA player, and Magic Johnson agreed. (I'm very surprised that nobody else has pointed this out to you.)



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