your thoughts on the Penn State scandal

[LookingForResults]

This topic is worthy of more than casual consideration not only for the rigorous and disciplined thought process that it demands to reach a just decision in this case, but for its much wider application regarding how we react to, and reach decisions regarding, a multitude of events whether personal or political. Specific to this case, a determination must be made regarding whether, or to what extent, Penn State as an institution should be punished, or whether criminal prosecution of identified perpetrators and direct or indirect accomplices is sufficient. The greater the punishment of the institution, the greater will be the punishment of the innocent that had no involvement other than attending or working at the institution. Conversely, the lighter the punishment of the institution, the less likely that every accomplice will have to "pay a price."

As an example of the first issue, punishment of the innocent, should current football players who were babies when some of the events occurred and had no knowledge of wrong-doing be told that they are banned from post-season play? If so, should all athletes in all sports face the same punishment, or just the unlucky athletes that play football?

But the second issue, insuring to the greatest degree feasible that every accomplice, however indirect, pay a price for their involvement, demands the casting of a wide net. For example, how does one best insure that the janitor witness who said nothing and the university Regents who may have heard rumors but did nothing, each and all rightfully and proportionately share in deserved punishment? Somewhere in this continuum of guilt, punishment will shift from criminal prosecution downward to a point where it becomes too difficult to determine proper punishment, and consequently there will be no punishment at all for many even though clear evidence exists of their status as an indirect accomplice.

Because of the duration of the crime and the extent of the conspiracy of the cover-up, apparently extending to the president's office, punishment of the institution, even though that necessarily means punishment of a vast number of innocents, seems unavoidable. So, how best to punish the the perpetrator and those directly involved in the cover-up, proportionately punish the greatest number of accomplices, punish the institution, and spare the innocent as much as possible?

The perpetrator and those directly involved in the cover-up, as well as some indirect accomplices will face criminal and/or civil prosecution. I think other indirect accomplices could/should be terminated, but retain retirement or other accrued benefits. When considering the punishment of the institution, two actions seem appropriate. First, the governor should accept the immediate resignation of every university Trustee/Regent, and should consider every Trustee/Regent as guilty until proven innocent of any knowledge whatsoever of the crime. Second, it is widely understood that money is the lifeblood of a university and the athletic program. The NCAA should allow Penn State athletic teams to compete in post season play so that the athletes are not punished, but require for two years that the school to donate ALL post-season revenue to a national charitable fund for neglected and abused children or some similar charity. Further, all regular season sports proceeds (ticket sales, concessions, conference proceeds, tv revenue, apparel sales, everything), greater than the smallest budget of any school in the Big 10, a decent portion of which I assume flows to the university general fund, should be confiscated for two years and remitted to the general fund of the State of Pennsylvania (not to be returned to the university).

[maverick]

That's pretty low.

It's ignorance. So, I guess the argument would be "because of the Catholic Church's tragic mishandling of the sexual abuse of children, obviously any Catholic in a position of power would do the same thing." And clearly, because some in the Nation of Islam are terrorists, they all are.

[maverick]

The Death Penalty for football at least should be used in this case. But the big $$ BCS power teams/conferences heads wont let that happen and come up with some liberal arse excuse like Maverick did above.
Fire and prosecute by law all involved that knowingly allowed this to happen on their watch.
Take away their NC title year and make PSU spend their billion's $$ tearing done their athletic offices and facilities where any of this happened and build something new.

Here is some of the latest.
NYT: PATERNO GOT ‘SWEETER DEAL’ IN MIDDLE OF SANDUSKY INVESTIGATION

Reading really is fundamental, Tyler. Now, slow down and go back and READ what I said. Then show me where I made a liberal ass excuse. I said I had not made up my mind on the subject and that I had a question I'd like people to answer. Oh, that must be it--anyone who takes a little time, considers the opinions and arguments of others, and makes a reasoned, rational decision instead of having a knee-jerk reaction--obviously that person is a liberal.

[DONW]

That's pretty low.

The pope knew what was going on and knew that priests were being moved from one parish to another when they were caught sexually molesting little kids. I have 2 friends that are catholic and was visiting them back in the spring. We were discussing this topic and I asked them what they thought about the priests sexually molesting the little kids. They started telling me how ministers in other religions had molested kids and I asked them to name me some that did. Of course they couldn't think of any. I was very disappointed that these longtime friends of mine would have even said that. This is a good example of what went on at Penn State. What if my friends had seen a priest molesting a kid? Would they have reported him?

[DONW]

It's ignorance. So, I guess the argument would be "because of the Catholic Church's tragic mishandling of the sexual abuse of children, obviously any Catholic in a position of power would do the same thing." And clearly, because some in the Nation of Islam are terrorists, they all are.

You apparently are the ignorant one. If you had read all the news about the priests that sexually molested little kids, you would know that the pope and many other people in high positions in the catholic church knew this was going on for years before anything was done about it. All of the muslims may not be terrorists, but, their number one goal is to take over the world and run it like the the other counties dominated by muslims are run. 20% of the world's population is presently muslim and it is the fastest growing religion. That's scarey!!!

[RougeDawg]

If this doesn't warrant the death penalty, what does; a cover-up of an actual murder!?

[maverick]

You apparently are the ignorant one. If you had read all the news about the priests that sexually molested little kids, you would know that the pope and many other people in high positions in the catholic church knew this was going on for years before anything was done about it. All of the muslims may not be terrorists, but, their number one goal is to take over the world and run it like the the other counties dominated by muslims are run. 20% of the world's population is presently muslim and it is the fastest growing religion. That's scarey!!!

Anyone breathing knows of the Catholic church scandal. The "low blow" and "ignorance" comments were aimed at your insult to Catholics, not Paterno. Assuming he is Catholic because he did something similar to the Pope makes it sounds as though he didn't report the abuse because he is Catholic. He may be, but that's not related to his motivations to ignore the sexual abuse.

[The Historian]

I talked to a friend of mine that works in NCAA compliance. While this is definitely lack of control, it doesn't really fit their bylaw for it. It would be a stretch for the NCAA to claim jurisdiction here.

Correct. When it comes to the NCAA, it appears as if there must be some other primary NCAA violation(s) to even trigger a consideration of "lack of institutional control". It does not fit at all.

When it comes to the federal government, the Clery Act calls for civil penalties to the school of up to $27,500 per violation. The Department of Education could also pull federal funds to the school, but there is almost no way that's going to happen. It would mean cutting off student loans, and they'e not going to take that route. The DOE could fine Penn State a million dollars or more and then make sure the school has the pieces in place to be compliant in the future, but that's as far as they are going to go.

I agree with RC in that, if Penn State ends up suspending the football program or facing any real sanctions from this, the Big 10 would have to be the entity to make it happen.

The other wildcard in this is the Pennsylvania state legislature and the governor. While Penn State's endowment is often discussed, those funds are already earmarked. The civil settlements will be the state's responsibility (or in this case the Commonwealth). If they were to reach $50 million or even $100 million and the citizens of Pennsylvania end up picking up the tab, I could see state lawmakers stepping in and forcing the school to impose fairly harsh penalties upon itself.

[champion110]

I didn't read all the posts on this thread, but as for Penn State, DEATH PENALTY! This is the absolute worst there is.......

[TYLERTECHSAS]

I didn't read all the posts on this thread, but as for Penn State, DEATH PENALTY! This is the absolute worst there is.......

I agree Champ! Here is a great case of the PC religion of "tolerance" digging in it's heals, at something as small as an educational institution vs. an entire country, and the damage it can cause.

[hookdown]

But the second issue, insuring to the greatest degree feasible that every accomplice, however indirect, pay a price for their involvement, demands the casting of a wide net....


...The perpetrator and those directly involved in the cover-up, as well as some indirect accomplices will face criminal and/or civil prosecution....

From what I heard on Sirius this weekend, that is going to be a very wide net. There are allegations of coverups or looking the other way in the local police departments, prosecutors office, all the way up to the gov himself. Remember, the first DA who took an interest in this case, just disappeared...

[TechDawgMc]

As much as it would make a lot of people feel better, the NCAA has no real business getting involved in this. Covering up an illegal act is not part of the NCAA's jurisdiction. As Historian said, it's just not part of what the NCAA by-laws are designed to enforce.

Now, PSU should pay dearly for their cover-up. Words like unethical and immoral just don't measure up to what went wrong there. Not only should the government enforce some penalties, but the cost in settling lawsuits should be high.

The key problem, it seems to me, is a culture in which the football program is "above the law" as far as the school is concerned. There have been a number of things come out that indicate that Paterno had way too much control over decisions made related to wrong-doing in the program. That is a recipe for disaster; it is essentially a fox minding the henhouse type situation. And it should be a warning to many other schools. While we can hope that pedophiles in the programs are rare, the "protect the program" mentality is not rare. There needs to be people who make decisions about moral/legal/ethical issues that do not have something to lose if the program loses a star player. One thing most coaches have proven is that they can rationalize almost anything. A few years back there was a situation where a TCU star beat some poor kid to a pulp, and the coach (can't remember if this was Patterson or someone before him) justified keeping him on the team because the law hadn't ruled yet (and conveniently, the case was postponed until after the end of the season--more than 3 months). Universities need someone who can say "no" to that kind of nonsense. Most of them don't have it.

[FriscoDog]

I really wonder if NCAA will ever hand out the death penalty to the same degree it did to SMU ever again. They may for a smaller school to use as an example just to prove that they still "got it", but I would be shocked if they would ever do it to a big AQ school due to $$$$ involved.

[DONW]

I remember reading somewhere that Paterno's total retirement pension was worth around 13 million. I wonder if the family will get that.

[HogDawg]

As much as it would make a lot of people feel better, the NCAA has no real business getting involved in this.

I disagree. While the "criminal and legal" issues certainly fall under the jurisdiction of state and local authorities, the NCAA still has the authority to initiate penalties over any NCAA member's athletic department that they believe received an unfair benefit. Let's not forget that it was Penn State officials that HIRED these people in the athletic department that committed these illegal acts, and the football program benefited from their silence for years. Even decades. Who knows, the Penn State football program may not be what it is today --and may not have won all those bowl games-- if this story had been properly reported to authorities back in the late 90's when PSU officials first knew about it.

The fact that Pedophile State athletic officials were aware of these issues early, and willfully chose not to go public and address them, makes the athletic department --the very thing PSU officials were trying to protect-- culpable in the crime, and subject to stiff NCAA penalties and fines.

Remember....the NCAA is in the business of compliance. And clearly, PSU's athletic officials did not comply with the NCAA's expected standards and rules as they relate to institutional control.





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