Spoon

[Cal&Ken]

It's not a man made quote - it was in one of our SS lessons last month I will have to find it...

Basically can be summed up as "through Me all things are possible" and "if you have ME, I will not forsake you..."

I think Job did a pretty good job of handling everything he was given - "he did not curse God and die as his wife instructed him" but he did press on and endure and in the end he was blessed more than one can imagine

I would love to see that Bible reference. I have never seen it before. Here is an interesting take that I do agree with. http://onedayworkweek.wordpress.com/...ou-can-handle/

[johnnylightnin]

For this discussion, God of the Bible. By glory I mean credit or commendation or thanks. And by blame I mean credit as well.
When great things happen (landing a new job, giving birth to a healthy baby, winning a competition, overcoming an illness, etc.), we are to give all the credit to God. Afterall, it's his doing and his awesome plan.
But- when things don't go well (cancer, early death, natural disasters, tragedies of all sorts, etc.), God isn't held responsible. Why not?
The usual answer I get seems to be that it's all part of a bigger plan, God's master plan. Basically don't question it, just have faith... Or God wants us to turn to him for healing... Or, my personal favorite, blame all misfortunes on the devil. The latter being the easiest out. If it's good, it's God's doing. If it's bad, it must be Satan's work. Create a scapegoat and you are in the clear. Genius plan.

You can't understand the biblical explanation of evil apart from Genesis 3. Now, you may disagree that there was a literal Adam who literally made all of humanity fall by disobeying God, but that is what the Bible teaches. Death, disease, natural disasters, pain, suffering, ect. are all results of the fall. So then, it was humanity that ushered in the things that we would "blame" God for. When sin entered into the world, EVERYTHING was effected…including our inclinations and desires (to tie us back to the bomb that blew this thread up). Through Adam's sin, we're all irreparably damaged with no ability to "pull ourselves up by the bootstraps". This is the Gospel…Christ came not just for individual salvation, but to restore all things.

[Tech77]

There is something similar in I Corinthians 10:13, but it relates to temptation.

[Dowty]

This is the one that most people refer to when talking about not being given more than you can bear:

The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure. - 1Corinthians 10:13 (NLT)

While it specifically mentions tempations here (even in KJV), it can be interpreted as temptations to sin or temptations to turn away from God during the tough times in life. During these times, Jesus reminds us that there is hope for all of us, and tells us how to overcome...

²⁸ Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. ²⁹ Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. ³⁰ For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.” - Matthew 11:28-30 (NLT)

I would say that the trials and tribulations one experiences throughout their lives are all part of God's plan, and a way for Him to test our faith. One of the long-time members of our church passed away a few days ago from cancer. He never wanted our pastor or the church to pray for his healing because he said there was much more to look forward to in Heaven than there was here on Earth. He knew that he'd be healed either way. That is a true display of faith if you ask me.

[Dwayne From Minden]

There is something similar in I Corinthians 10:12, but it relates to temptation.

You don't know what your missing by not being in the "Heathens" Sunday School Class -

[Guisslapp]

You can't understand the biblical explanation of evil apart from Genesis 3. Now, you may disagree that there was a literal Adam who literally made all of humanity fall by disobeying God, but that is what the Bible teaches. Death, disease, natural disasters, pain, suffering, ect. are all results of the fall. So then, it was humanity that ushered in the things that we would "blame" God for. When sin entered into the world, EVERYTHING was effected…including our inclinations and desires (to tie us back to the bomb that blew this thread up). Through Adam's sin, we're all irreparably damaged with no ability to "pull ourselves up by the bootstraps". This is the Gospel…Christ came not just for individual salvation, but to restore all things.

Because that is how things naturally work? Hard to blame all that on a single act of disobedience. Sounds more like a petty god that wanted to punish mankind, even those that were not around for the fall. Including those innocent children that are tortured and killed every day. If you are inclined to believe in a god that is in control, that is.

[johnnylightnin]

Hard to blame all that on a single act of disobedience.

Based upon what? You can only lean on your opinion which is fine, but let's not act like it's more than it is. Again, in the context of internal consistency, that is the biblical answer.

You certainly point to a more difficult and less clear cut (biblically) issue that God, being omnipotent, could've acted differently in creation. I would say, though, that he could not have acted differently in regard to his character. He could've created Adam in such a way that he would not have sinned. Once Adam sinned though, God is bound by his character to hold him accountable. After all, a judge who is not just is not a good judge.

[hambone29]

So did God know Adam would sin?

[johnnylightnin]

So did God know Adam would sin?

Absolutely. God knows all from eternity past to eternity future. He knows things as they actually are and as they would be if situations were different.

[hambone29]

So he intentionally and willingly created imperfection?

[Guisslapp]

Based upon what? You can only lean on your opinion which is fine, but let's not act like it's more than it is. Again, in the context of internal consistency, that is the biblical answer.

You certainly point to a more difficult and less clear cut (biblically) issue that God, being omnipotent, could've acted differently in creation. I would say, though, that he could not have acted differently in regard to his character. He could've created Adam in such a way that he would not have sinned. Once Adam sinned though, God is bound by his character to hold him accountable. After all, a judge who is not just is not a good judge.

How was god's character formed? By what process?

[johnnylightnin]

How was god's character formed? By what process?

It was not formed. There were no processes. He has always been…character intact.

[johnnylightnin]

So he intentionally and willingly created imperfection?

There is a nuance here that we ignore to our peril. The Bible says that God created Adam in a state of perfection. There was nothing wrong with Adam when he was created. He was created, however, with the potential for imperfection. That cannot be denied. You may call that an imperfection, but I would push back.

But, ultimately, God created Adam knowing full well that he would fall.

[Guisslapp]

Based upon what? You can only lean on your opinion which is fine, but let's not act like it's more than it is. Again, in the context of internal consistency, that is the biblical answer.

You certainly point to a more difficult and less clear cut (biblically) issue that God, being omnipotent, could've acted differently in creation. I would say, though, that he could not have acted differently in regard to his character. He could've created Adam in such a way that he would not have sinned. Once Adam sinned though, God is bound by his character to hold him accountable. After all, a judge who is not just is not a good judge.

Actually, it sounds exactly like what prehistoric man, without having the benefit of centuries of scientific and philosophical learning, would have thought a god would be - petty and jealous. But it does not sound like the behavior of an omnipotent and all-knowing god. It just had a very unsophisticated feel to it. This gets back to my point about how the more times I have read the bible, or parts thereof, the less easy it is to believe that these are actually divine revelations. They read far more like a collection of related stories of unenlightened man trying to understand the universe, define a value system, and provide for an instrument to effect societal change.

[Russdawg]

Why does God get all the glory but none of the blame? Serious question.

For this discussion, God of the Bible. By glory I mean credit or commendation or thanks. And by blame I mean credit as well.
When great things happen (landing a new job, giving birth to a healthy baby, winning a competition, overcoming an illness, etc.), we are to give all the credit to God. Afterall, it's his doing and his awesome plan.
But- when things don't go well (cancer, early death, natural disasters, tragedies of all sorts, etc.), God isn't held responsible. Why not?
The usual answer I get seems to be that it's all part of a bigger plan, God's master plan. Basically don't question it, just have faith... Or God wants us to turn to him for healing... Or, my personal favorite, blame all misfortunes on the devil. The latter being the easiest out. If it's good, it's God's doing. If it's bad, it must be Satan's work. Create a scapegoat and you are in the clear. Genius plan.

The biggest misconception is that if God is good everything should be wine and roses all the time, which is the furthest thing from the truth

Great question, Chris29. I've wondered and pondered that a lot since becoming a born again Christian over 50 years ago. Debated a lot with my wife and in Sunday School. Given that God is the Creator of the universe, I have learned to express thanks when things go well, and to ask for strength and grace when things go bad. But I like your question and its deeper implications on how we see God.

I can reconcile your question and Dwayne's comment: God chose to create us with a free will, to choose as we desire. If EVERYTHING went fine all the time for anyone who believes in God and has accepted Christ, the EVERYONE would take that deal based on "what's in it for me." Not much of a choice. I am thankful that we GET to choose, that we weren't created as puppets, that we can KNOW the Creator. Thankful that we can choose God based on who He is and what he did for us in sending his Son who gave His life for us.