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"There is no reason for measures that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade. We call on all countries to implement decisions that are evidence-based and consistent. WHO stands ready to provide advice to any country that is considering which measures to take,” said WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus in early February.
New VA study showing worse patient outcomes with HCQ - no benefits, more death.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...920v1.full.pdf
First please don't call this a study, its a “retrospective analysis of data from patients”.Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Basically, you can read into the results whatever you want to, good are bad.
“Patients were categorized based on their exposure to hydroxychloroquine alone (HC) or with azithromycin (HC+AZ) as treatments in addition to standard supportive management for Covid-19.” No zinc?
“primary outcomes were death and the need for mechanical ventilation”
“368 patients (HC, n=97; HC+AZ, n=113; no HC, n=158). Rates of death in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups were 27.8%, 22.1%, 11.4%, respectively. Rates of ventilation in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups were 13.3%, 6.9%, 14.1%, respectively. Compared to the no HC group, the risk of death from any cause was higher in the HC group (adjusted hazard ratio, 2.61; 95% CI, 1.10 to 6.17; P=0.03) but not in the HC+AZ group (adjusted hazard ratio, 1.14; 95% CI, 0.56 to 2.32; P=0.72). The risk of ventilation was similar in the HC group (adjusted hazard ratio, 1.43; 95% CI, 0.53 to 3.79; P=0.48) and in the HC+AZ group (adjusted hazard ratio, 0.43; 95% CI, 0.16 to 1.12; P=0.09), compared to the no HC group.”
“However, hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease, as assessed by baseline ventilatory status and metabolic and hematologic parameters. Thus, as expected, increased mortality was observed in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, both with and without azithromycin. Nevertheless, the increased risk of overall mortality in the hydroxychloroquine-only group persisted after adjusting for the propensity of being treated with the drug. That there was no increased risk of ventilation in the hydroxychloroquine-only group suggests that mortality in this group might be attributable to drug effects on or dysfunction in non-respiratory vital organ systems. Indeed, hydroxychloroquine use in Covid-19 patients has been associated with cardiac toxicity.”
Might be because they were almost dead before starting treatment. They should start as soon as they have a positive test. They are afraid of FDA.
Maybe you didn’t read the whole thing. Under Methods, the first subheading is “Study Design”. So I think it is fair to use the word “study”.
Frankly I don't give a sh*t what it says, its not a study. They didn't study anything. They analyzed pre-recorded data. If that's the best you can come up with I don't know what you've been doing the past couple of days (-:.
And this pleases you because.....why?
Because you believe there is still no therapy that works, and there will be more deaths that you can claim for your TDS F'd up brain?
You are sicker than any of the folks with this virus.
People are already coming out and shooting holes in this "study".. notice you give zero credibility to the dozens of studies that show positive outcomes using HCQ, just like these stories failed to do so.. because they want to paint Trump in the worst possible light period.
Well duh!
Coronavirus: US university stops using Chinese testing kits after some found to be contaminated
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/unit...-using-chinese
I didn’t say it pleases me, but you have already admitted to taking pleasure in other’s grief. So wouldn’t that make you have a sick and F’d up brain?
“People”?
“Dozens of studies”?
You must be confused.
Dr. Oz also said it was not a "study" in the accepted definition of the term. But, so? Let's not get caught up in terminology, and look past any new information that might be critical to our overall battle with this new virus. Analyzing past results, on-going happenings, and documenting it all for current and future reference is all part of a larger process. Over the years being on this forum I have always said I am a scientist, insomuch as I look at all things through the prism of the SCIENTIFIC METHOD. Much of what SOME claim is true science, isn't. It is nothing more than speculation/conjecture based on VERY, VERY little scientific evidence, and some of it can NOT be subject to the scientific method and will therefore forever be mere speculation.
Back to the matter at hand...
Covid-19 aka SARS II is a novel virus. Just like any of the 2,000 naturally occurring strains of viruses, and now the additional 2,000 Chicom-made viruses (like this one) they are all unique. That is why they are classified as separate strains. There is still no vaccine for HIV and for SARS I. HIV announced itself in a big a way some 40 years ago. Medical science has been working on a vaccine for it...still no luck. There are treatments for HIV-infected patients, which is good, but still no vaccine. There is no vaccine for the "common cold" either. So, don't expect one for C-19 anytime soon...or ever.
As for how well the malaria drug works, or doesn't, for help with this virus, I don't know...any more, or less, than most anyone else. There were some positive results from its use for some patients. Including a personal friend who adamantly declares it saved his life. His doctor agrees...it saved his life. My sister...now retired but still in touch with colleagues, and two nieces, with whom I have on-going communication with, mostly my checking up on them, are on the frontlines. They all say the malaria drug HAS SAVED LIVES! Period. No question about it. Like any other drugs and treatments there will be side-effects and in some cases it may not work. The malaria drug may not be the answer to this new virus. But, let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.
That's a disappointing study for sure. Not much more value than the anecdotal results that have shown benefit, but another data point for sure. Hopefully Remdesivir will test better.
DR. MEHMET OZ: “Well the VA study looked at older and quite a bit sicker patients, all male patients in their hospitals, and they showed that the drug by itself didn't help, it might harm that population.”
Seems like even Dr. Oz calls it a study. When did he say it wasn’t a “study.”
It seems like there is some confusion in this thread around what is a “study” and what is an anecdote.
Friscodawg and dawg80 cite anecdotes that HCQ works. I don’t doubt that some doctors and patients feel like it saved their/patients lives. The question is whether it saves more lives than the standard of care. That is where it gets iffy, and in the case of the VA study, it was shown to be worse.
So far there is no good treatment. There is also some reason to believe that there might not be immunity once you have had it.
Vaccine development not showing anything particularly promising yet.
Testing still not up to the numbers needed.
That is the unfortunate status right now.
In this backdrop, states are feeling pressure from within to reopen before the disease is under control.
These factors portend to less rosy projection of death and economic destruction. The only thing we can do right now is more social distancing, and people need to continue to adhere to the guidelines to give us a fighting chance as we wait for some good news.
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