President Trump

[DawgyNWindow]

I would love to see a coalition style multi-party system rather than the 2 party system we've backed into.

But you'd want more than just Democrats/Republicans/Trumpicans (or whatever).

You need the left to splinter some, too. And probably for the Libertarians and Green Party to strengthen a little.

There are drawbacks to this system, too. But it'd be worth seeing.

May just happen.

I suspect the dem party is going to crater in the midst of all this. For 4 years the only thing that united them was the desire to get rid of Trump, the guy that beat what was supposed to be their disgusting appointee to the position. Not all dems are incredibly stupid like some of the ones on here and actually do not wish to defund the police, support China at any cost, or open the borders and let millions of immigrants into our welfare system. The only thing they really all agree upon is the desire to abort as many black babies as possible.

They've just had that moment in time similar to when the USA was attacked on 9/11, when every American was waving a flag and vowing to get the parties responsible for the attack. Now that Trump is gone, they are going to have to agree on more than that. I suspect they won't be voting as a single voting block going forward, like they did when Trump occupied the WH whether their votes were good for America or not. Now each faction will want credit for winning the last elections and want THEIR specific agendas to be implemented. Expect a lot of infighting....finally. They were as lemming-like as Goosey for four long years, waiting for their marching orders to make sure they ALWAYS took a position opposite of Trump, even if that meant screwing the very people that sent them there to supposedly govern.

[inudesu]

We don’t need more parties. We need more pragmatists. More people to join the Problem Solvers Caucus and fewer people being party loyalists.

more (viable) parties would force that, no?

It might push it in that direction some.

Yeah I don't know that we don't still get ideologues (maybe worse for that) and venal career opportunists. Multi-party isn't without problems.

Some of those countries have to reset the government every other day it seems.

But combine a few more parties with ranked voting and we'd at least be adding some incentives for pragmatism (while preserving/gaining the opportunity to vote your conscience that we don't have with just the two.

[inudesu]

There will certainly be some divisiveness among the Democrats. Didn't AOC just say recently that in most countries (or if we had more than 2 options or something like that) that she and Biden almost certainly wouldn't share a party?

That's part of why I don't love having just the two. If you're an actual socialist like Bernie, you've got to vote with the ones who are in the pockets of industry. If you're socially liberal but financially conservative like a Silicon Valley Executive you've got to pick a lane (or hedge your bets and donate to both). If you're generally pro immigration but otherwise socially conservative, where do you go? You compromise.

And short of everyone running for everything you can't ever get totally bespoke political parties.

But 4-8? I'd be curious to see how that worked.

Could totally backfire, but to get anything done you'd have to work with at least some other groups.

Again, not a perfect fix, and for sure a lot of personal wish-fulfillment projection as someone dissatisfied with the party he almost exclusively votes for based mostly on one key issue (and several more lesser ones).

[dawg80]

May just happen.

I suspect the dem party is going to crater in the midst of all this. For 4 years the only thing that united them was the desire to get rid of Trump, the guy that beat what was supposed to be their disgusting appointee to the position. Not all dems are incredibly stupid like some of the ones on here and actually do not wish to defund the police, support China at any cost, or open the borders and let millions of immigrants into our welfare system. The only thing they really all agree upon is the desire to abort as many black babies as possible.

They've just had that moment in time similar to when the USA was attacked on 9/11, when every American was waving a flag and vowing to get the parties responsible for the attack. Now that Trump is gone, they are going to have to agree on more than that. I suspect they won't be voting as a single voting block going forward, like they did when Trump occupied the WH whether their votes were good for America or not. Now each faction will want credit for winning the last elections and want THEIR specific agendas to be implemented. Expect a lot of infighting....finally. They were as lemming-like as Goosey for four long years, waiting for their marching orders to make sure they ALWAYS took a position opposite of Trump, even if that meant screwing the very people that sent them there to supposedly govern.

Good post. Yep, the Democraps will start eating their own now. Tucker had a monologue on this last night, and basically said for the past 4 years+ it has all been about Trump. Either you liked him or hated him, but in either case the entire political landscape revolved around him. Now the Dems have their own senile, wishy-washy "leader" (LOL) to focus their angst on.

Last night the stupid libtard mayor of Portland was attacked while he was dining out...maskless. Guvnar Newsome (Calif) is facing a recall. The Dems have marched in lockstep, aided under the table by the RINOs mired in the Swamp, but now there is no longer a "common enemy." And there is no doubt that Harris-Biden, egged on by Crazy Bernie & AOC et al, and all made possible by the two POS Schumer and Pelosi, that very soon Americans will realize what a huge mistake they just made. Especially since we Americans did not really elect this goofy socialist bunch...

[dawg80]

Any surprise that Trump incites the crowd last night and then throws them under the bus tonight?

Yep! only at the very end did he play the "political" card. That is, he finally acted like all other politicians do.

[arkansasbob]

But combine a few more parties with ranked voting and we'd at least be adding some incentives for pragmatism (while preserving/gaining the opportunity to vote your conscience that we don't have with just the two.

i love the idea of ranked voting, and i think it is the only practical way to get to a multi-party system, but how do we get there when the major parties know that would be the end of their monopoly?

[inudesu]

i love the idea of ranked voting, and i think it is the only practical way to get to a multi-party system, but how do we get there when the major parties know that would be the end of their monopoly?

I think we don't.

Not from any consessions on the part of the parties.

It'd take a splintering over something else like Sasse and Romney refusing to be in a party with idiots like Cruz and Hawley. Or, more likely a Trumplican breakaway the other direction by his supporters from the "rinos" who didn't "stick up for" Trump.

But it'd be lamented as a bad thing (incorrectly) because of short term losses until the left splits, too.

And we're talking about people who are already politicians here. Some will gamble (like Cotton) on Trump being less important once he's out of office. Others will gamble that they still need him. Both groups will be scared that if they split the base they end up losing their power to a Democrat.

But he may force them. Or maybe he finally has this week.

[Guisslapp]

I think we don't.

Not from any consessions on the part of the parties.

It'd take a splintering over something else like Sasse and Romney refusing to be in a party with idiots like Cruz and Hawley. Or, more likely a Trumplican breakaway the other direction by his supporters from the "rinos" who didn't "stick up for" Trump.

But it'd be lamented as a bad thing (incorrectly) because of short term losses until the left splits, too.

And we're talking about people who are already politicians here. Some will gamble (like Cotton) on Trump being less important once he's out of office. Others will gamble that they still need him. Both groups will be scared that if they split the base they end up losing their power to a Democrat.

But he may force them. Or maybe he finally has this week.

Businesses just need to stop funding the ReTrumplicans and then you can have an adult Republican Party again. Some have already started.

[DONW]

I think we don't.

Not from any consessions on the part of the parties.

It'd take a splintering over something else like Sasse and Romney refusing to be in a party with idiots like Cruz and Hawley. Or, more likely a Trumplican breakaway the other direction by his supporters from the "rinos" who didn't "stick up for" Trump.

But it'd be lamented as a bad thing (incorrectly) because of short term losses until the left splits, too.

And we're talking about people who are already politicians here. Some will gamble (like Cotton) on Trump being less important once he's out of office. Others will gamble that they still need him. Both groups will be scared that if they split the base they end up losing their power to a Democrat.

But he may force them. Or maybe he finally has this week.

Even better I'd like to see the red states and the blue states split and form their own governments. All this gender crap these liberals are coming up with is really crazy along with the green deal and a whole bunch of other crazy stuff. They want to do away with gender word like men, women and mother and father. Liberals are effing crazy. Biden wants to appoint a woman in the justice department civil rights division that thinks everything will be decided by the color of your skin.

[techman05]

Don, you are so unwoke and intolerant. All men can have babies if they want. All women can produce sperm if they want. I, as a heterosexual white male, can still claim victim status because I have non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. Due to my condition, I can force anyone around me to adopt the same diet I am required to eat so we are the same. There are no longer any differences between people and we all should have the same outcome in life regardless of any factors.

[dawg80]

I am a bit surprised that the establishment GOP doesn't want to impeach Trump. Maybe they are just treading lightly, trying to play both sides against the middle. But, I would think the RINOs, in cahoots with The Swamp, would want to impeach Trump since that would mean he could not run for POTUS in 2024. Maybe they think they can secure his legions, 75 million true Americans, to support them. But that is laughable. One thing the Left and those with their heads buried in the sand (Goosey, lil johnny, et al) have never understood, and still don't, is Trumpism is NOT pro Donald Trump, it is anti-SWAMP. Donald Trump happened to be a person who could pull the sword out of the stone, ala King Author, and lead the movement to return the United States of America to a Constitutional "We the people..." government.

Ted Cruz might see himself as heir-apparent to the Trump-led movement, but he would have to give up his current political, entrenched status and I don't think he is willing/capable of doing that. Trump is a true outsider. Only a true outsider can lead an anti-Swamp movement.

Anyway, as I said, I am surprised the establishment, Swamp, GOP is not supporting impeachment of Trump.

[dawg80]

And while the Washington Post clumsily attempts to blame President Trump for the violence – despite the President calling for “peaceful” protests and the “cheering on” of Congressmen – their own article admits the “first wave of protesters arrived at the Capitol about 12:40pm.”
President Trump’s speech didn’t conclude until 1:11pm, and with at least a 45-minute walk between the two locations with crowd-related delays, that would put the first people from Trump’s speech at Capitol Hill no earlier than 1:56pm – a full hour and sixteen minutes after troublemakers arrived.
In fact, rioters who breached the perimeter would have had to leave before Trump’s speech even began (at 12pm precisely) to make it in time for the events as they are detailed by authorities.

[Guisslapp]

And while the Washington Post clumsily attempts to blame President Trump for the violence – despite the President calling for “peaceful” protests and the “cheering on” of Congressmen – their own article admits the “first wave of protesters arrived at the Capitol about 12:40pm.”
President Trump’s speech didn’t conclude until 1:11pm, and with at least a 45-minute walk between the two locations with crowd-related delays, that would put the first people from Trump’s speech at Capitol Hill no earlier than 1:56pm – a full hour and sixteen minutes after troublemakers arrived.
In fact, rioters who breached the perimeter would have had to leave before Trump’s speech even began (at 12pm precisely) to make it in time for the events as they are detailed by authorities.

That is because it wasn’t just Trump’s speech no that day that incited them. It has been his rhetoric since the election. We already know these groups came to DC with this purpose in mind.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buz...planned-online

This is why the ADL warned about extremism and violence at the Capitol days in advance.

Trump has been cooking this bomb for months.

[Guisslapp]

Speaking of, we knew at least as early as January 3 that The Proud Boys were planning to show up at the Capitol dressed to look like Antifa. Perhaps that addresses some folks confusion.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...k-2021-1%3famp

Remember when Trump told them to “Stand By”.

[inudesu]

I am a bit surprised that the establishment GOP doesn't want to impeach Trump. Maybe they are just treading lightly, trying to play both sides against the middle. But, I would think the RINOs, in cahoots with The Swamp, would want to impeach Trump since that would mean he could not run for POTUS in 2024. Maybe they think they can secure his legions, 75 million true Americans, to support them. But that is laughable. One thing the Left and those with their heads buried in the sand (Goosey, lil johnny, et al) have never understood, and still don't, is Trumpism is NOT pro Donald Trump, it is anti-SWAMP. Donald Trump happened to be a person who could pull the sword out of the stone, ala King Author, and lead the movement to return the United States of America to a Constitutional "We the people..." government.

Ted Cruz might see himself as heir-apparent to the Trump-led movement, but he would have to give up his current political, entrenched status and I don't think he is willing/capable of doing that. Trump is a true outsider. Only a true outsider can lead an anti-Swamp movement.

Anyway, as I said, I am surprised the establishment, Swamp, GOP is not supporting impeachment of Trump.

I'm not surprised, but I kind of wish they would.

There are some strong arguments for and against impeachment in this case. It doesn't strike me as surprising that the practical matters (if nothing else) of trying to rush this through in 2 weeks or of trying to argue that you can impeach someone after their term (see also William W. Belknap) have made it not worth attempting.

I think the strongest argument against an attempt is that Trump and his base thrive on this false persecution narrative and an impeachment that would probably result in little to no practical consequence (although barring him from running again would be great, he'd probably just run anyway and then that would set off a whole 'nother public debate about whether he's allowed to run or not despite what Congress decided and the whole thing would just lead to more division)