Stock Market- Investing

[dawg80]

Interesting that it took Musk less than 1/3 the time to amass 3 times the wealth as Warren Buffet.

Musk, and others like him, are fascinating to read about, their history, how they accumulated wealth, etc...

But, how many Musks are there and how much room is there in that exclusive club? Not much! Now, how many people can be like Warren Buffet? Well, just about anyone could. That is Buffet's story and why he should be the model held up for others to follow. If I were addressing a room full of young folks, late teens/early 20's, who want to know how to get rich! I wouldn't use Musk, Bezos, or Suckerberg as my prime examples (I might mention them...). I would use someone like Warren Buffett as my example of what any one of them can accomplish.

That is my point, and don't need your typical smartass comments, Goosey, oh boy! Musk smoked Buffett, ladda dah!

[Guisslapp]

Musk, and others like him, are fascinating to read about, their history, how they accumulated wealth, etc...

But, how many Musks are there and how much room is there in that exclusive club? Not much! Now, how many people can be like Warren Buffet? Well, just about anyone could. That is Buffet's story and why he should be the model held up for others to follow. If I were addressing a room full of young folks, late teens/early 20's, who want to know how to get rich! I wouldn't use Musk, Bezos, or Suckerberg as my prime examples (I might mention them...). I would use someone like Warren Buffett as my example of what any one of them can accomplish.

That is my point, and don't need your typical smartass comments, Goosey, oh boy! Musk smoked Buffett, ladda dah!

Musk has done much more to transform the world than Buffet. I would focus on that accomplishment more than his wealth. Once you can take care of your needs, money doesn’t mean so much.

[dawg80]

Musk has done much more to transform the world than Buffet. I would focus on that accomplishment more than his wealth. Once you can take care of your needs, money doesn’t mean so much.

Binged "What has Elon Musk accomplished." It came back adding "really" in front of accomplished. The article, it said, is designed to be generous and not nit-pick too much.

1. Tesla
2. gigafactories
3. Spacex
4. The Boring Company
5. The Musk Foundation

None of his so-called accomplishments have changed a damn thing, except his own personal wealth. Which is fine, but don't give him credit "to transform the world." He has unrealized dreams and ideas, that's it.

I don't think Warren Buffet has transformed the world either, but I never said he has. This thread is focused on investing and improving personal wealth. And that is my point about holding up Buffet as a model, an example, of why anyone can become wealthy. Buffet has demonstrated the model of success. He set out to become individually wealthy and do it slowly, conservatively over time. You don't have to agree with him or think he merits any kind of accolades. But he set a goal and it is MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Musk has goals.... some of them worthy and great...but he has not accomplished anything yet. But he is rich! Well done indeed.

In summary, I think more people will find success imitating Buffet than ever will trying to be the next Elon Musk. You disagree?

[Guisslapp]

Binged "What has Elon Musk accomplished." It came back adding "really" in front of accomplished. The article, it said, is designed to be generous and not nit-pick too much.

1. Tesla
2. gigafactories
3. Spacex
4. The Boring Company
5. The Musk Foundation

None of his so-called accomplishments have changed a damn thing, except his own personal wealth. Which is fine, but don't give him credit "to transform the world." He has unrealized dreams and ideas, that's it.

I don't think Warren Buffet has transformed the world either, but I never said he has. This thread is focused on investing and improving personal wealth. And that is my point about holding up Buffet as a model, an example, of why anyone can become wealthy. Buffet has demonstrated the model of success. He set out to become individually wealthy and do it slowly, conservatively over time. You don't have to agree with him or think he merits any kind of accolades. But he set a goal and it is MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Musk has goals.... some of them worthy and great...but he has not accomplished anything yet. But he is rich! Well done indeed.

In summary, I think more people will find success imitating Buffet than ever will trying to be the next Elon Musk. You disagree?

You forgot Neuralink, and you have lost your mind if you think Tesla and Space X have not transformed the auto and space industries.

There are few that will do as much as Musk, but there are plenty of disruptive, transformative companies today still being led by their now-wealthy founders. They just don’t have the market cap of Tesla or Berkshire (today). Forrest Li is another that could catch up soon.

[dawg80]

One more thing, I should have mentioned this before...

Warren Buffet preaches about the importance of a great management team in charge of companies. In countless interviews, many of which I have seen, and articles I have read Buffet emphasizes great management. He won't invest in, buy shares in, a company that he thinks has a weak management team. The company might have a great product or service and that is what attracted him to investigate them in the first place, but he won't invest unless he likes management. In this way Buffet has influenced American business in general. I don't know how much practical influence he has had, say in a company changing management after Buffet rejected them...although I suspect some changes were made. But he is so well respected across the business world that when he speaks, people do listen.

Others, from the world of quality (Six Sigma), have wielded influence, some directly. But I wouldn't simply dismiss the consequences of Berkshire Hathaway passing on a company's stock. I guarantee that is a wake-up call for those involved and many investors, including large Hedge funds, notice too.

[dawg80]

You forgot Neuralink, and you have lost your mind if you think Tesla and Space X have not transformed the auto and space industries.

There are few that will do as much as Musk, but there are plenty of disruptive, transformative companies today still being led by their now-wealthy founders. They just don’t have the market cap of Tesla or Berkshire (today). Forrest Li is another that could catch up soon.

Tesla and Space X have not transformed either industry. Especially not Space X. Just a big boy toy to be. As for Tesla, EVs will be around, in some minor capacity, but that whole "movement" will soon get gobbled up by the realities of the market. Twenty years from now we will look back and ask, "hey remember when those stupid car companies actually thought they could replace the internal combustion engine...LOL"

Physics, real science...here ya go, pound for pound there is more energy in a gallon of 2,2,4-trimethal pentane than any other form of energy THAT can be employed in vehicles. Not talking about plutonium.


BUT! even if, for the sake of argument, I agreed, yeah, baby! Musk is another Albert Einstein/Andrew Carnegie/John D. Rockefeller/Steve Jobs all rolled into one, I still maintain more people will realize success following the Buffet model than trying to invent themselves as the next Elon Musk. You never answered before, so I ask again...you agree or disagree?

[dawg80]

Oh, I didn't comment...I didn't miss Neuralink, that article left it out as a notable Musk accomplishment. I was just quoting their top 5 for him.

And after reading more about it, I can see why it didn't make their top 5. That is just plain stupid! Maybe folks like you, robots who march in lockstep as the sheeple you are waiting for George Soros' next command, will embrace that nonsense, but 99% of people will not just say no, but HELL NO! Just another stupid idea that will never find a market.

But, hey, if you like it, mortgage your house and buy tons of shares in Neuralink.

[Guisslapp]

You sound like a relic.

Cars don’t need fuels with that kind of energy density. Tesla makes 3 times the margin as the rest of the auto industry and they can scale their gigafactories much more efficiently. Henry Ford on steroids.

SpaceX’s reusable rockets reduce the cost of space travel by a factor of 100.

[DawgyNWindow]

You sound like a relic.

Cars don’t need fuels with that kind of energy density. Tesla makes 3 times the margin as the rest of the auto industry and they can scale their gigafactories much more efficiently. Henry Ford on steroids.

SpaceX’s reusable rockets reduce the cost of space travel by a factor of 100.

AFAIK, batteries only store energy they get from elsewhere. They are consumers of energy, not sources.

Mining for the components of these batteries is probably more destructive environmentally than drilling for oil and gas, and it makes us hyper-dependent on foreign supplies (what could go wrong?????).

Even those gigafactories have not yet produced a vehicle that is affordable for the majority of the developed world, much less the underdeveloped world. Henry Ford made his fortune creating cars in efficient factories for folks that could not otherwise afford them...that is not a Tesla strength.

Do you own a Tesla?

No doubt Musk is a visionary, but visionaries are rarely practical. Buffet is just a regular guy that that made his fortune investing in stable companies with good management (today he just makes money because he has a lot of it and gets deals that nobody else gets). Very few people can be like Musk, but almost anyone can be like Buffet. I believe that is what the question was.

[dawg80]

"Canadian truckers rule!" - Elon Musk

Kudos to Musk for supporting the anti-mandate truckers in Canada.

And as Mr. Window said, I have no issues with Musk as a visionary, being an entrepreneur, trying to make things (products and systems) and I salute his accumulation of wealth. He is a capitalist, I am a capitalist, go for it! But right now he is living off of speculative investment, people buying stock in his companies. Now, it is true for the first time Tesla is in the green for the past trailing 12 months, net income of $3.2 billion, this after losing $60 billion from 2018-2020 and practically breaking even for tax year 2021. SpaceX is closely held (not on stock exchange) and raises its money via venture capitalists. Last report shows it has received $338 million from investors.

I don't begrudge Elon Musk making money, getting rich, and if his efforts lead to good, practical products for the consuming public then great! But, as Mr. Window correctly picked up on, that is not the question. And he is right.

Carry on all you daring souls investing in the volatile, often nutso, stock market and GLTA.

[Guisslapp]

AFAIK, batteries only store energy they get from elsewhere. They are consumers of energy, not sources.

Mining for the components of these batteries is probably more destructive environmentally than drilling for oil and gas, and it makes us hyper-dependent on foreign supplies (what could go wrong?????).

Even those gigafactories have not yet produced a vehicle that is affordable for the majority of the developed world, much less the underdeveloped world. Henry Ford made his fortune creating cars in efficient factories for folks that could not otherwise afford them...that is not a Tesla strength.

Do you own a Tesla?

No doubt Musk is a visionary, but visionaries are rarely practical. Buffet is just a regular guy that that made his fortune investing in stable companies with good management (today he just makes money because he has a lot of it and gets deals that nobody else gets). Very few people can be like Musk, but almost anyone can be like Buffet. I believe that is what the question was.

Tesla could make a car with fewer frills more cheaply, but why would they when they can get better margins with what they are building today? The model T didn’t have have and elaborate infotainment system filled with semiconductors, and wasn’t remotely capable of self driving.

100% torque at every RPM is a tough to beat performance feature of EVs.

People want EVs now. They are now in many respects better than their ICE counterparts. They will continue to gain market share going forward for that reason. As battery costs continue to drop and battery performance/charging options continue to improve, they will have fewer drawbacks.

[Guisslapp]

"Canadian truckers rule!" - Elon Musk

Kudos to Musk for supporting the anti-mandate truckers in Canada.

And as Mr. Window said, I have no issues with Musk as a visionary, being an entrepreneur, trying to make things (products and systems) and I salute his accumulation of wealth. He is a capitalist, I am a capitalist, go for it! But right now he is living off of speculative investment, people buying stock in his companies. Now, it is true for the first time Tesla is in the green for the past trailing 12 months, net income of $3.2 billion, this after losing $60 billion from 2018-2020 and practically breaking even for tax year 2021. SpaceX is closely held (not on stock exchange) and raises its money via venture capitalists. Last report shows it has received $338 million from investors.

I don't begrudge Elon Musk making money, getting rich, and if his efforts lead to good, practical products for the consuming public then great! But, as Mr. Window correctly picked up on, that is not the question. And he is right.

Carry on all you daring souls investing in the volatile, often nutso, stock market and GLTA.

$10k invested in Tesla 10 years ago would be 2.1 million now. You won’t get that kind of return investing where there aren’t plenty of doubters. And the practical don’t radically change the world.

[dawg80]

$10k invested in Tesla 10 years ago would be 2.1 million now. You won’t get that kind of return investing where there aren’t plenty of doubters. And the practical don’t radically change the world.

Wow! congrats Goosey on your investing $10K in Tesla ten years ago. Good for you.

Yep, "if only" eh. You can go back and pick some point in history and say, if you had invested $10K in such and such company it would be worth $X millions. That is true for most, just about all, of the companies Buffet invested in decades ago. Which is the point. Time is your best ally. Not everyone is SMART enough to buy AMC when I recommended it about this time last year, and then sell the whole wad 90 days later for a HUGE return. In my case I cleared $47/share on 3,300 shares. Should have bought more!

Overall, companies like Tesla come along and are always one beast in a herd of similar firms, trying to do the same thing, or something like it, and 10 years later some genius points to the winner and says, Hah! if you had only bought that one! And why does the world need to be radically changed? If anything, I think the world needs to hold on to some of the things that got us here in the first place.

For full disclosure, I do buy shares in start-ups, some penny stocks, and hope I have picked the right one out of the herd. Haven't had too much luck doing that, with a few exceptions, and never invest that much. Heck, I dumped 9 such stocks in December, for tax purposes, with a combined total loss of about $1,500. My CPA advises me to dump losers to help to offset the capital gains of my winners. Besides, they were losers and I have invested that money elsewhere. But, buying a 1,000 shares or so in some penny stock is exciting. It feeds that "get rich quick" thingy most of us have, and it's like gambling. You know...roll the dice! Not something Warren Buffet does, but then he's a $billionaire and I ain't.

As for investing in the stock market.... come on in, the water is fine.

[dawg80]

Some comments from Buffet's long time business partner Charlie Munger...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgpkxASHAhY

[dawg80]

Comments from Peter Lynch, the founder/manager of the awesome Fidelity Magellan Fund. I was smart to invest in, and then dumb when I sold it all. Yeah, I made a bunch of money on it, but should have held it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQfe02XD2MQ