Economic Comparison Between WAC/BELT

[Lone Star Dawg]

Okay, since we're in limbo between the WAC and the Belt, has anyone done a financial comparison beteen the two?

I know that the WAC has a tv package and more bb tourney credits, but is that enough to offset the travel expenses?

If we joined the Belt, would the savings in travel expenses be enough to invest in the facilities and make a discernable difference?

I think many of us need Dwayne (as if you don't have enough to do) or someone with information to give us a cost analysis of both scenarios.

[champion110]

It is not all about short term financial savings. If it was about that, we should go back to 1aa. It takes investing some money to build something. So, the question is not the potential short term savings, it is where do you want to be on the next re-shuffle. If you are in the belt, you will not get picked. You will not have anything over UNT or even ULL. Our talent will sink to the level of the belt and we will be one of the crowd. In the WAC, we keep our talent at a higher level and are spot lighted for expansion.

Do you think UNT was even seriously considered on this round? No. No Sun Belt school was given a second glance.

I understand that we will have to pull from the Belt in order to make the WAC work, but that is better than sinking to their level.

The WAC is presently expanding westward ( witness: NewMexicoState, UtahState, probably Idaho ?? ).

Do you actually think Boise, Fresno, Hawaii, or Nevada really like to travel to Ruston, Louisiana, for games ??

Do you actually think any of the present-day WAC members, excluding us, wants to add Lafayette, Louisiana, and/or Denton, Texas, to their all sports travel schedules ??

Hoping to the contrary, but suspecting that the WAC is gonna let us hang out there until we choke or go broke.

[champion110]

Well, we should hang out there for a little while. We should not make any hasty decisions. The Commish stated earlier in the year that he would try to recruit some teams for Tech for travel partners. That may have been lip service when he thought we were a shoe in for CUSA, but hopefully not.

In any case, the alternative is a lower level in competition and perception. We can not recruit on the level that we have now and will sink fast. Yes, we will save some money, though.

Well, we should hang out there for a little while. We should not make any hasty decisions. The Commish stated earlier in the year that he would try to recruit some teams for Tech for travel partners. That may have been lip service when he thought we were a shoe in for CUSA, but hopefully not.

In any case, the alternative is a lower level in competition and perception. We can not recruit on the level that we have now and will sink fast. Yes, we will save some money, though.

Champ you're right. You guys really need to tell the Sun Belt "no thanks, we're just too good to be associated with a group like you". Stay in the WAC where you're loved and appreciated while you wait for CUSA's next call. I'm sure you'd be welcome in the Belt if you applied, but it isn't as if you'd really be missed if you didn't.

[DeepGreen]

It is not all about short term financial savings. If it was about that, we should go back to 1aa. It takes investing some money to build something. So, the question is not the potential short term savings, it is where do you want to be on the next re-shuffle. If you are in the belt, you will not get picked. You will not have anything over UNT or even ULL. Our talent will sink to the level of the belt and we will be one of the crowd. In the WAC, we keep our talent at a higher level and are spot lighted for expansion.

Do you think UNT was even seriously considered on this round? No. No Sun Belt school was given a second glance.

I understand that we will have to pull from the Belt in order to make the WAC work, but that is better than sinking to their level.

champion110, for your information, NT was the #2 choice for CUSA expansion. Whether we were #2 and LT #3, didn't matter. We both lost.

Let's set the record straight. I feel sorry for La Tech and what has happened to you guys being left out on an island. Whether you ask for membership in the Sun Belt is your school's choice. I could care less. Having you would strengthen the Sun Belt. Not having you will not hurt the 'Belt either.

As to recruiting, LT's records the last few years indicates to me that the WAC has not provided you any recruiting edge.

So those of you who continue to slam the Sun Belt, go right ahead. The WAC is dying. When the big 3 leave, your dead. And so will the LT football program. I would hate to see that.

[MADDAWGNBAMA]

Deep Green,

How many Sunbelt teams can boast victories over Alabama, Michigan State, Mississippi State and Oklahoma State? Irregardless of our record over the past 3 years, we have won some big games ON THE ROAD against top 25 competition. Just a couple of years ago we took Auburn to overtime before they squeaked out a victory.
Most of us on this board would rather see up and coming programs such as UNT's join us in the WAC rather than boast about victories over FIU and Louisiana-Monroe. We are not anti-Sunbelt as a whole; we just believe that some of members actually lowers the bar when it comes down to the level of competition...thats all.
________
Silver surfer vaporizer

[Lone Star Dawg]

I don't know that recruiting will keep an edge if we are competing against a slate of all western teams in conference. That may have worked when we could sale matchups against Rice, SMU, etc. but now we are telling recruits to come play at Tech and compete against teams that many of their families will never be able to travel to and see.

At the moment I don't have a personal preference between the WAC or the Belt, that's why I wanted to see if someone could supply some numbers. Obviously our attendance will take a slight upturn in the Sun Belt which will help the bottom line and winning a conference title will go along way to restoring confidence in the program that has all but disappeared. Being able to divert money from travel costs to facilty upgrades is not a short term investment if the numbers support it.

Obviously if the money differential is not significant then we need to go back to my first paragraph and decide which conference is a better selling point to recruits, because in the end, those are the important factors that we have to deal with.

[DeepGreen]

Deep Green,

How many Sunbelt teams can boast victories over Alabama, Michigan State, Mississippi State and Oklahoma State? Irregardless of our record over the past 3 years, we have won some big games ON THE ROAD against top 25 competition. Just a couple of years ago we took Auburn to overtime before they squeaked out a victory.
Most of us on this board would rather see up and coming programs such as UNT's join us in the WAC rather than boast about victories over FIU and Louisiana-Monroe. We are not anti-Sunbelt as a whole; we just believe that some of members actually lowers the bar when it comes down to the level of competition...thats all.

MADDAWGNBAMA, make no mistake, those were great wins. But what have those victories gotten you and at what price? NT was real proud of our wins of Texas Tech(they were big wins for NT), but you know what? Other than some nice press clippings most people have forgotten about those wins. Does playing FIU and FAU excite me? Hell no!

This is survival man. Nothing more. NT is trying to continue building our programs and improving our facilities. The NO Bowl may not be "big time" for you, but for three straight years North Texas has enjoyed exposure and wins. Three plus hours worth of NT "infomercials" each year. It all adds up and allows the AD to improve something facility wise each year. Last year it was the Daktronics score board, this year a new athletic center.

[Soonerdawg]

Where is Friscodawg.

[MADDAWGNBAMA]

You make good points, DeepGreen except that those wins over ranked opponents did afford us notoriety across the nation. We beat Michigan State last year in East Lansing...we received our fair share of the ESPN highlight reel. CUSA's decision was their lost ultimately. UTEP does not bring more to the table from a level of competition perspective. They are in and congrats to them.

We'll continue to work hard to improve our standing in D1A, but I have to agree with you on the fact that it is survival of the fittest.
________
Buy vapir one

[Bigdog13]

Deep , Prove you were the second choice or bring it up no further. For as many "inside sources" as you have saying that we have just as many saying we were barely nipped in the voting and UNT recvd 0 votes. Thats right ZERO. So lets just drop it. And move on. We are actually in agreement on this one.

Champ , You are wrong about recruiting suffering being in the Belt. Parents of players want to see them play. They like being able to drive to Dallas to see them play . Or any local game. That weighs large in players minds when making a choice. The players are not gonna get anymore excited about playing in Boise than they would in Laffy. I seem to remember us out recruiting and out playing these schools when were an indy and people lumped us all together back then. Yet we still outrecruited and outperformed the belt schools. In fact I remember beating most of those schools by 40-60 points well before we were a twinkle in the WAC's eye. That recruiting argument doesnt fly.

Saying a Belt school could never get an invite is also BS. They visited our campus once. They visited UNT's twice. While I don't think they got one vote. I think it was because they already had SMU in that market and didnt need anyone else. Not because they are in the Belt. Because market is everything to them. (they were going for the extremely large "hispanic football fan crowd"...LOL) What is sad is we could have won the WAC last year and UNT could have upset OU and beat Memphis in the NO bowl by 80 points and it wouldnt have mattered. C-USA would not have liked our market and would already have a team in UNT's market.

Champ , with all due respect you are way , way , too concerned with this perception thing. Remember we were kicking these schools asses up and down the field way before there was this "perception" that we have seperated ourselves. Ask Troy Edwards if he felt perception slowing him down when he was running for 50 TD's in one game aginst ul-L. If we get into that league we will be first or second every year in football. We will save tons of money that we can use to update and rebuild our crappier than crappy facilities. (I promise you my HS football stadium is nicer than Aillet , granted its a large Texas 5a program but still) And remember why we lost our bid..... Market and facilities. Can't do a thing about the market. Need the $$$ for facility improvements. Its been said on several threads the large donors (the same braniacs who want Bick to be our head coach) want to use their donations to offset our travel cost problems in the WAC. Stupid , Stupid , Stupid. That money needs to go directly into expansion and improvements of our athletic facilites. OK I'm done ranting....... Champ I respect your opinion but we just disagree on this one.

[TECH88]

BD13, if another slot becomes available in CUSA we will not get it, North Texas will. CUSA is enamored with large markets and schools that actually invest in their programs and facilities. Apparently, CUSA doesn't put much value on whether you have a winning program or not. ULL is not far behind North Texas either, look for them to be one of the schools to be considered next time around. Tech has A LONG WAY to go to match what NT and ULL have done.

[CARTEK]

CUSA pays lip service to facilities...the vote last Friday was about perceived market and the fact that USM, UAB, and Memphis did not want to recruit against us, period!

[Tech77]

Guys, I am quite unfulfilled by wins over Oklahoma State and Michigan State during seasons when we get our hat handed to us by teams like Rice and Tulsa, and only finish with 4 or 5 wins.

When I saw Bicknell defending his coaching by talking about the "skins" he had taken, I realized how shallow that line of thinking is.

I'd rather be a winner in conference play, and lose to all the BCS schools we play, than get one BCS win and suck in conference.

It's time to drop the better-than-you attitude. Right now, we would not be the best team playing football in the Sun Belt. I hope we can change that soon, but we all know what it will take to do that, and there has been no date set.

We need to look at this conference thing with our eyes wide open.

If what's best for us includes an association with UNT and ULL (and others) then so be it. If we honestly feel that is not what's best for us, this constant trash talking is not getting us anywhere.