ObamaCare: A false Promise

[saltydawg]

Man, ain't that the truth! Our nation survived 8 years of obummer! We can survive anything.

Obama left Office with a 59% approval rating. Looks like you were in the 41% group.

[dawg80]

I think Trump should move on from HC...for now. There are other critical issues that need addressing. In the meantime, make it clear: okay, folks, you are stuck with obummercare for the time being. Hope you love it, and keep your effing mouths shut when it collapses, which it will.

But! I real leader will continue to work behind the scenes to repeal and replace obummercare. Actually, the best plan is NO plan! No guvmint plan that is. Allow the free market to sort this mess out. The free market is like water...it seeks its own level. Left alone, no I mean, REALLY left alone, the free market will arrive at the best system. But, I doubt the American people will be patient enough to allow the free market to work. And surely, the commie lamestream media will stir the pot with fake news trying to convince Americans the free market doesn't work.

[dawg80]

Obama left Office with a 59% approval rating. Looks like you were in the 41% group.

Come on salty, my bud! You know that was a personal approval rating. Asked about obummer's policies, the American people torched his presidency. And, that manifested itself by the 'craps taking a beating in elections for those 8 years. Typical obummer supporter: I like Barry Hussein Obummer, he's a good guy. He cares about me. I just don't like his policies*. And that, even with the lamestream media protecting him with fake news for 8 years.

*polls asked Americans about issues, without connecting the policies to obummer. Overwhelmingly Americans rejected obummer's policies. Just that most did not know it was obummer's policies.

[PawDawg]

Obama left Office with a 59% approval rating. Looks like you were in the 41% group.

The same 59% who were going to put Clinton in office by an overwhelming margin. When are you people going to accept that these polls are rigged?

[saltydawg]

The same 59% who were going to put Clinton in office by an overwhelming margin. When are you people going to accept that these polls are rigged?

Really?boehner-300x221.jpg

[RhythmDawg]

Trump is not right on this issue because he has not presented any real reform to the health care system. It's the same old same old deal except he wants to take away the health insurance of 20+ million people in order to give hundreds of $billlions in tax cuts to the richest people in America.

The ACA also brought no reform whatsoever. The delivery of healthcare saw zero fundamental change. The payment model saw zero fundamental change. All it did was create entitlements through regulation and paid for it using mandates. That's it. All the republicans are trying to do is take away the entitlements and the mandates which pay for them.

I blame both parties for messing with healthcare for political points and, because they actually have no idea how it works outside of a classroom, nor do they actually care about real reform to fix the actual problems, they are costing all of us big $$$$$.

Salty, I don't disagree completely with your statement above...but I do disagree with the false context that somehow Trump and the GOP are wrong, while the Democrats did the right thing. That is false. This whole thing is on both parties, and if something isn't done, it literally may bankrupt this country and all of us in it. If it doesn't, then that means the government has allowed the healthcare and healthcare insurance industries to collapse....which is what I am currently rooting for.

[saltydawg]

The ACA also brought no reform whatsoever. The delivery of healthcare saw zero fundamental change. The payment model saw zero fundamental change. All it did was create entitlements through regulation and paid for it using mandates. That's it. All the republicans are trying to do is take away the entitlements and the mandates which pay for them.

I blame both parties for messing with healthcare for political points and, because they actually have no idea how it works outside of a classroom, nor do they actually care about real reform to fix the actual problems, they are costing all of us big $$$$$.

Salty, I don't disagree completely with your statement above...but I do disagree with the false context that somehow Trump and the GOP are wrong, while the Democrats did the right thing. That is false. This whole thing is on both parties, and if something isn't done, it literally may bankrupt this country and all of us in it. If it doesn't, then that means the government has allowed the healthcare and healthcare insurance industries to collapse....which is what I am currently rooting for.

I think I've stated at least a couple of times that Obamacare is flawed and that real reform of the health care system is needed.

There is a real need to take the big money out of our political system. Then, and only then, will there is a good chance to drain the swamp.

[PawDawg]

I think I've stated at least a couple of times that Obamacare is flawed and that real reform of the health care system is needed.

.

What do you see as the flaw? Be specific.

[dawg1984]

Obama left Office with a 59% approval rating. Looks like you were in the 41% group.

Would be interesting to know what Obama's approval rating would have been had Hillary been elected. In other words:
-- Was Obama's approval rating at 51% because Trump won?
-- Would Obama's approval rating been higher, lower, unchanged had Hillary won?
-- What would Obama's approval rating been had Bernie won?

[saltydawg]

What do you see as the flaw? Be specific.

The individual mandate and the fact that it didn't reform significantly the health care delivery system. In other words, it merely extended the coverage of the existing health care system.

[PawDawg]

The individual mandate and the fact that it didn't reform significantly the health care delivery system. In other words, it merely extended the coverage of the existing health care system.

Yes the individual mandate was a huge flaw. However it did not come close to extending the existing health care system. It did, however destroy existing health insurance, especially the good parts.

[dawg80]

The increase in the opioid crisis is a direct result of obummercare. Some say, well, it's an "unintended consequence" of trying to do good. Nope! it's a very predictable consequence of a federal guvmint program. Just like the oh-so-wonderful subprime mortgage program, pushed by the 'craps: Maxine Waters, Chucky Schumer, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank and later joined by Barry Hussein Obummer, was just trying to "do good" by expanding the American dream to the poor. Never mind that it was the cause of the economic collapse of 2007-2008. 'Unintended consequences" ya understand...

So now....oh my...another crisis wrought by another federal guvmint program. Of course, it's all Trump's fault. Was glad to see a lamestream media babe on CNBC shooting straight on this issue. She laid the blame exactly where it belongs: on the doorstep of obummercare. Of course, she'll get fired by CNBC now....

Tch, tch....too bad. According to the numbers, some 30,000 people, under the age of 40 have died as a direct result of this obummercare-wrought crisis. And hundreds of thousands more are now hooked on opioids. And! here's the best part, it's the very demographic groups that support the democraps who have been hardest hit. Well, well...

[PawDawg]

And! here's the best part, it's the very demographic groups that support the democraps who have been hardest hit. Well, well...

...and they are upset that they are not able to get the large free quantities they always got in the past. Reckon why they wanted all those freebies? Are some of the democrats capitalist after all?

[dawg80]

So....let's say obummercare completely implodes, as Trump predicts. Or, leave Trump out of it, as others predict and even as obummercare supporters fear. It just goes away, all of it, hook, line, and sinker. Poof! gone. Then what.....???

Well, HC providers (hospitals, clinics, doctors, nurses, etc...) will still be here. They won't go poof! and disappear. Insurance companies who want to engage in that aspect of the insurance industry will still be here. Medicaid and Medicare won't disappear over night, even though Medicaid in particular, could be vanquished with a stroke of Trump's pen...provided Congress put something on his desk ( ). But, in reality, "healthcare" will still exists. If you fall off your roof and break a bone, you could still find an emergency room willing to set the broken bone for ya! (used this example because I was up on the roof of one of properties trimming limbs off a tree...whoa! it's only about 10 feet to the ground, but it looks higher!)

W/O obummercare, and any other guvmint interference, the free market would kick in. If someone breaks their arm and goes to a local hospital, would the admin there say: welcome to our hospital, oh, you've broken your arm, I see. Hurts, doesn't it! We can fix that, but first, let's discuss cost...

[saltydawg]

The increase in the opioid crisis is a direct result of obummercare. Some say, well, it's an "unintended consequence" of trying to do good. Nope! it's a very predictable consequence of a federal guvmint program. Just like the oh-so-wonderful subprime mortgage program, pushed by the 'craps: Maxine Waters, Chucky Schumer, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank and later joined by Barry Hussein Obummer, was just trying to "do good" by expanding the American dream to the poor. Never mind that it was the cause of the economic collapse of 2007-2008. 'Unintended consequences" ya understand...

So now....oh my...another crisis wrought by another federal guvmint program. Of course, it's all Trump's fault. Was glad to see a lamestream media babe on CNBC shooting straight on this issue. She laid the blame exactly where it belongs: on the doorstep of obummercare. Of course, she'll get fired by CNBC now....

Tch, tch....too bad. According to the numbers, some 30,000 people, under the age of 40 have died as a direct result of this obummercare-wrought crisis. And hundreds of thousands more are now hooked on opioids. And! here's the best part, it's the very demographic groups that support the democraps who have been hardest hit. Well, well...

D80, could you explain why Obamacare caused the opoid crisis. What's the specific linkage?

Hard to see Obamacare causing the 2008 recession since the program didn't become law until 2010 or so.