jena six

[buck_dawg_gold]

It is amazing how a lot of people on this board say racism does not exist. It is alive and well. Maybe it is not as open as it was in the 60’s and 70’s but it is still taught in some homes in America. Let me give you an example. I am a young black male college educated. I just got my first job with a big company in The Woodlands, Texas (a suburb outside of Houston). I was excited about my job and how I was actually seeing the money I spent for college was finally paying off…. One day I decided to go to a local gym and workout after work. When I was leaving a young white girl about five years of age or younger was with her mom. She took a look at me and said in the cutest voice black people aren’t supposed to be hear. Now where in the world would a child learn this from….. Sesame St. Last I checked Big Bird wasn’t teaching kids that. Yeah not all white parents teach there kids things like that, but some do, and the funny thing about it is that I cant say that, that was the first time I have heard a white child say something like what was said…. I blew it off after it happened. I told the mother “Glad to see you guys are teaching your kids to grow up right at a young age and walked off”… Yes it is better now than it was once before, but racism is far from non issue in America…. If you want more examples I can give them of worse things that have happened. All I here from you guys is forget the past forget the past, but when you are reminded of the past in subtle ways like I am sometimes it is hard to forget… One last quote…. How can a man with no past have a future? One must first no where he came from to know where he is going.

[AustinDawg]

That is a very unfortunate story, B-D-G. And I agree with your post. It's funny, I was told the same thing (except switch the colors of the involved parties) while I was trying to survey for some waterline improvements in the Queensborough section of Shreveport. It wasn't a 5-year old girl that told me that either.

I think if there is any trait that is universal (aside from love), it's ignorance.

[buck_dawg_gold]

That is a very unfortunate story, B-D-G. And I agree with your post. It's funny, I was told the same thing (except switch the colors of the involved parties) while I was trying to survey for some waterline improvements in the Queensborough section of Shreveport. It wasn't a 5-year old girl that told me that either.

I think if there is any trait that is universal (aside from love), it's ignorance.

One thing that I have learned is that racism is like an infection and if it is not killed when it is first seen it will spread….

[Guisslapp]

It is amazing how a lot of people on this board say racism does not exist. It is alive and well. Maybe it is not as open as it was in the 60’s and 70’s but it is still taught in some homes in America. Let me give you an example. I am a young black male college educated. I just got my first job with a big company in The Woodlands, Texas (a suburb outside of Houston). I was excited about my job and how I was actually seeing the money I spent for was finally paying off…. One day I decided to go to a local gym and workout after work. When I was leaving a young white girl about five years of age or younger was with her mom. She took a look at me and said in the cutest voice black people aren’t supposed to be hear. Now where in the world would a child learn this from….. Sesame St. Last I checked Big Bird wasn’t teaching kids that. Yeah not all white parents teach there kids things like that, but some do, and the funny thing about it is that I cant say that, that was the first time I have heard a white child say something like what was said…. I blew it off after it happened. I told the mother “Glad to see you guys are teaching your kids to grow up right at a young age and walked off”… Yes it is better now than it was once before, but racism is far from non issue in America…. If you want more examples I can give them of worse things that have happened. All I here from you guys is forget the past forget the past, but when you are reminded of the past in subtle ways like I am sometimes it is hard to forget… One last quote…. How can a man with no past have a future? One must first no where he came from to know where he is going.

I think most here would agree that racism still exists. Where people tend to disagree is (1) what are the causes, (2) who is to blame, and (3) to what extent, if at all, should the government do something to address it.

I tend to believe that the only way we will be able to overcome racismas a "society" is to make a concerted effort to put it in the whole idea of "race" in the past. I understand the importance of knowing history to prevent history from repeating itself, but there is a difference between learning about history and blaming every apparent disparity on racism.

Racism is undoubtedly alive and well in many homes in the US. These folks are basically lost - there is pretty much no hope that their minds will be changed. Our best hope, IMO, is that we teach our children that the only race they are a part of is the human race. Forget teaching white heritage or black heritage. If either are important then racism is justified because race makes us different.

[JuBru]

Unfortunately, the only way to teach children that sometimes is through people other than their family. I know if it weren't for certain people at my school, church, and that worked with my dad, I most undoubetedly would have grown up racist... But, I was lucky to have mentors around me that taught me "correctly" and it did help that I "refused" to be a part of the family so to say while growing up...
Two of my earliest mentors were an Air Force colonel and an Iranian American, both neighbors when I was little... I credit them with a LOT of my views on accepting everyone regardless of race, nationalty, etc.

Sometimes, it's a GOOD thing to rebel and not listen to parents/family.

[PawDawg]

I think most here would agree that racism still exists. Where people tend to disagree is (1) what are the causes, (2) who is to blame, and (3) to what extent, if at all, should the government do something to address it.

It is also a shame that the problem is made to look like it exists mainly in the South.

1. Causes - diversity in culture

2. Blame - diversity in culture

3. Govt. Involvement - They are and have been for years. Things are getting better in spite of govt., not because of the govt.

[buck_dawg_gold]

I think most here would agree that racism still exists. Where people tend to disagree is (1) what are the causes, (2) who is to blame, and (3) to what extent, if at all, should the government do something to address it.

It is also a shame that the problem is made to look like it exists mainly in the South.

1. Causes - diversity in culture

2. Blame - diversity in culture

3. Govt. Involvement - They are and have been for years. Things are getting better in spite of govt., not because of the govt.

Well the south has a bigger problem with racism because of the lack of education that is prominent in the south..... Miss, Ala, Lou, Ark all rank in the bottom 10% when it comes to education. With a lack of education comes ignorance. At the same time I spent some time in Boston, home to many prestigous colleges, after talking to whites, blacks, and hispanics i saw that they also have a huge problem with racism.... Which goes back to the early 1900's when blacks and irish immigrants were fighting for the same jobs.... There is still a lot of anger between both groups because of that..... I guess regardless of race no one really forgets the past.

[stodgdog]

"You're the one who is implying that integration is bringing down our education. You're the one implying that blacks are dumb and now you are trying to back away." -- pers

I implied neither. What I attempted to say is that expectations and standards have been lowered in Louisiana public schools. Can you dispute that? Standardized tests have been said to be "culturally biased." I asked how can that be? Standards of education should not be lowered, they should be more strigent as competition from other developed and developing countries becomes more fierce. Can you dispute that? Claiming racism and cultural bias is just a way to disguise that some students are not performing adequately. I never said or implied black people are not smart enough to acheive. You inferred that. All students should meet a strigent standard and if they're not, don't lower the standard, the students should raise their performance. They are certainly capable. Anything else is detrimental to learning. Can you dispute that?

I'll give two examples. I guess it was 10-12 years ago (maybe longer or shorter as time gets away as one gets older) when I was living in Jackson, Mississippi public schools started magnet schools in the Jax metro area (maybe state wide but I'm not sure of that) for students that excelled. The requirement for attending these schools was strictly performance based. It ended up that a large majority of students that qualified were white (about 90% if my memory serves). A faction of black politicians complained this was not fair and these magnet schools should be more or less equally divided racially. The MS public school system's remedy was that there would be separate standards in that white student acheivements were compared within the white student population and black students compared with the black student population. That defeats the whole purpose. In the interest of "fairness", many that should have qualified were left out. It seems unfair to ALL students that instead of raising expectations and performances of those that didn't qualify, they compromised the whole purpose of creating these schools. I want ALL Americans to acheive and excel.

We went over to some friends house last night. Their son was studying for a test at ULM. He's a bright kid. I asked how he was doing and was told he struggling at ULM because he was not adequately prepared in high school. An example I was given was that in his senior year MATH class, the teacher routinely spent 4 days of the week showing films and discussing slavery in the US over 150 years ago. I agree that slavery should be included as part of a US History or Social Studies class, but certainly not the lions share of a MATH class, for crissakes. Maybe this is part of why some children can't meet educational standards. Not because they can't, but because public schools allow such nonsense to be "taught" in the classroom. I in no way think slavery was fair nor do I dispute that racism is part of our history, and it still exists. BUT, if this country is to move forward, it certainly shouldn't be the focal point of high school education, or even a history or social studies class.

We as AMERICAN people have to move past this, and blacks are going to have to get that chip off their shoulder if we are to progress. It is not helpful to claim "racism" and "cultural bias" at every turn. Read something written by some clown named Rico in another thread on this board. There is no room for that kind of thinking for us to move forward. Racism is certainly a two way street.

"Just state your position so I won't have to wonder what you mean and then I can respond." -- pers

Please point out specifically where I have contradicted myself. I have been consistent and I beleive clear in what I have stated. I may discuss things but am not always taking a "position". I am open to hear other opinions and discuss issues. In order to honestly discuss issues, any issue, one must be able to freely exhange ideas without fear of being labeled. It is you who seem to have a position and don't want to respond to ideas that may "challenge" that.

[arkansasbob]

It is amazing how a lot of people on this board say racism does not exist. It is alive and well. Maybe it is not as open as it was in the 60’s and 70’s but it is still taught in some homes in America. Let me give you an example. I am a young black male college educated. I just got my first job with a big company in The Woodlands, Texas (a suburb outside of Houston). I was excited about my job and how I was actually seeing the money I spent for college was finally paying off…. One day I decided to go to a local gym and workout after work. When I was leaving a young white girl about five years of age or younger was with her mom. She took a look at me and said in the cutest voice black people aren’t supposed to be hear. Now where in the world would a child learn this from….. Sesame St. Last I checked Big Bird wasn’t teaching kids that. Yeah not all white parents teach there kids things like that, but some do, and the funny thing about it is that I cant say that, that was the first time I have heard a white child say something like what was said…. I blew it off after it happened. I told the mother “Glad to see you guys are teaching your kids to grow up right at a young age and walked off”… Yes it is better now than it was once before, but racism is far from non issue in America…. If you want more examples I can give them of worse things that have happened. All I here from you guys is forget the past forget the past, but when you are reminded of the past in subtle ways like I am sometimes it is hard to forget… One last quote…. How can a man with no past have a future? One must first no where he came from to know where he is going.

buck, i don't know that anyone on this thread has denied the existance of racism. the original question was whether the kids in jena were being treated differently by the justice system because of their race. there is a big difference. there are plenty of racists in every community i have ever lived in, but in my lifetime i have never heard of a community that was so racist that justice would not be served equally to both black and white (there is always the issue of someone with money being able to afford better lawyers, etc., but that is not a race issue).

i guess the second question is whether the jena six were justified in their attack because of racism, or if racism is acceptable for some, but not for others. persnickety thinks it is ok for you to hate me because i am white. do you agree?

[PawDawg]

Well the south has a bigger problem with racism because of the lack of education that is prominent in the south..... Miss, Ala, Lou, Ark all rank in the bottom 10% when it comes to education. With a lack of education comes ignorance. At the same time I spent some time in Boston, home to many prestigous colleges, after talking to whites, blacks, and hispanics i saw that they also have a huge problem with racism.... Which goes back to the early 1900's when blacks and irish immigrants were fighting for the same jobs.... There is still a lot of anger between both groups because of that..... I guess regardless of race no one really forgets the past.

See I believe that the south appears to have more racism because we have a more diverse population than most midwestern and rural northern communities. They sit in judgement of us here in the south but have no idea as to what different races deal with here because they have never and will never experience it.

[stodgdog]

Maddawg,

Are you to Oxford Saturday?

[buck_dawg_gold]

buck, i don't know that anyone on this thread has denied the existance of racism. the original question was whether the kids in jena were being treated differently by the justice system because of their race. there is a big difference. there are plenty of racists in every community i have ever lived in, but in my lifetime i have never heard of a community that was so racist that justice would not be served equally to both black and white (there is always the issue of someone with money being able to afford better lawyers, etc., but that is not a race issue).

i guess the second question is whether the jena six were justified in their attack because of racism, or if racism is acceptable for some, but not for others. persnickety thinks it is ok for you to hate me because i am white. do you agree?

Well to answer the original question yes race did play a part in the judgement handed down in the Jena 6 case.... If anything those involved should have been suspended from school and put on probration like any other fight..... Attempted murder is a little extreme the kid was able to go to his ring ceremony the next day. To also add a litttle extra perspective on all of this is if this kid was actually jumped by six individuals dont you think he would have been hurt much worse than what he was. In the picture that the press released of the victim he had only a black eye and bloody nose. That does not sound like the work of brutal six person beating....

[PawDawg]

Well to answer the original question yes race did play a part in the judgement handed down in the Jena 6 case.... If anything those involved should have been suspended from school and put on probration like any other fight..... Attempted murder is a little extreme the kid was able to go to his ring ceremony the next day. To also add a litttle extra perspective on all of this is if this kid was actually jumped by six individuals dont you think he would have been hurt much worse than what he was. In the picture that the press released of the victim he had only a black eye and bloody nose. That does not sound like the work of brutal six person beating....

Been watching CNN haven't you?

The kid was kicked into an unconscious state by SIX other kids. Hardly like "any other fight".

So you think that the DA brought those charges simply because the kid was black? You think the jury convicted him simply because he was black? You think because they were only wearing tennis shoes (heard Sharpton give this excuse) that they could not have hurt the kid?

If the kid being attacked were in a coma today and being fed by a tube, would your opinion change?

[Guisslapp]

Wasn't he knocked unconscious? The beating didn't end then, right? I don't know all the facts.

[PawDawg]

Wasn't he knocked unconscious? The beating didn't end then, right? I don't know all the facts.

That is correct, but the fact that they were only wearing tennis shoes, the kid came to, and was able to attend his ring ceremony the next day seems to make it okay.