George Floyd

[arkansasbob]

just a minor correction, dawg80. he was not pulled over. he was parked across the street from the scene of his alleged crime, and apparently was identified as the perpetrator of the crime by witnesses before the officers approached. this doesn't make a big difference, but it shows that it was a situation of officers responding to a call with an identified suspect, not pulling someone over for a minor infraction or because they match a description. here is a video that was released by nbc soon after the incident that provides context. the body cam footage tells the rest of the story.

for my part, i can't imagine why any officer would ever think it was a good idea to sit with his knee on someone's neck for that long, and it obviously played a part in causing george floyd's death regardless of (and perhaps because of) the damage being done by whatever drugs were in his system. at the same time, i think you would have a hard time proving mens rea here based on the body cam footage. but i suspect it will be hard to find a jury that can take a truly unbiased look at the evidence with all that's been going on.

[dawg80]

Okay...thanks for the additional information.

I have posted several times that it is standard practice by police to look after the medical condition of anyone in their custody. I can understand why/how Floyd's continued claims of "I can't breathe" even before a police officer was even touching him, began to fall on deaf ears. I'm sure the officers were like, "yeah, we get it, you can't breathe, yeah right..." Still, they should have called EMTs sooner then they did and allow professional medical responders to deal with Floyd's claims he couldn't breathe. Turns out Floyd was right. He was experiencing a medical episode...due to all the drugs he had taken...and needed attention. This is the failure that day of the police officers in this event.

It was NOT murder. It was not manslaughter. It was merely some poor police management of an arrest scene and a suspect having a medical issue. Period.

George Floyd was a convicted felon, in the act of committing another felony, was high on drugs, and was NOT some "model citizen." He has been a made a martyr by the goofy Left which speaks volumes of how truly disgusting they are.

BTW...this makes the claim of that woman, that Floyd had given her a ride and she did not know him, even funnier. It would have been one thing for Floyd to be pulled over with two passengers and one of them making that claim. But Floyd was parked at the scene of a crime, and this woman was sitting in the vehicle and she wanted police to believe she was just hitching a ride? Nah!

[dawg80]

On another note, I assume everyone here...since this is the most informed group of Internet forum-users...have seen the published articles and pics of one of BLM's founders together with the commie Venezuela leader. Opal Tometi with President Maduro. Tometi is no longer actively involved in national leadership of BLM as she has moved on to create another commie organization designed to destroy America. Tometi is still a member of BLM, a local chapter.

[johnnylightnin]

Mens rea is not needed to convict of felony murder.

[dawg80]

Mens rea is not needed to convict of felony murder.

It is in a case like this. The police officer using the kneeling method of restraint was following accepted MOs and using a technique he had been trained in. He, and others, have used that method before, and no one died because of it. One would have to believe, and then PROVE, since the burden of proof is on the prosecution, that the officer(s) knew that day, in that 8 minutes of time, he was killing George Floyd.

IF (big IF) that method of kneeling to hold down a suspect had resulted in numerous deaths, then there would be more evidence, facts, to support the notion Floyd was killed on purpose. Like shooting someone with a heavy firearm, a .357-Magnum, for instance and claiming later...Well, I had no idea it would kill the dude!...yeah, right. It is common knowledge that a .357-Mag kills people quite easily. But, in this case a heretofore nonlethal technique was used...

Also, police are authorized to use deadly force when warranted. The laws that apply to average citizens simply do not apply to police officers in the course of their duty. For instance, can you hand-cuff someone and take them off somewhere, lock them up, based on the assumption they have committed some kind of crime? The police can. We would be arrested and charged with kidnapping, and other things...in this case those officers were authorized to use that restraining method.

No criminal activity took place...none. Mens rea notwithstanding. NO CRIME COMMITTED.

But, the Floyd family, someone legally allowed to, can sue for wrongful death, a civil case. I think there is enough there for that.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

Something still isn’t right that the cop with the knee and Floyd knew each other and worked at the same club (probably where Floyd bought his drugs). Something is very fishy.

[johnnylightnin]

It is in a case like this. The police officer using the kneeling method of restraint was following accepted MOs and using a technique he had been trained in. He, and others, have used that method before, and no one died because of it. One would have to believe, and then PROVE, since the burden of proof is on the prosecution, that the officer(s) knew that day, in that 8 minutes of time, he was killing George Floyd.

IF (big IF) that method of kneeling to hold down a suspect had resulted in numerous deaths, then there would be more evidence, facts, to support the notion Floyd was killed on purpose. Like shooting someone with a heavy firearm, a .357-Magnum, for instance and claiming later...Well, I had no idea it would kill the dude!...yeah, right. It is common knowledge that a .357-Mag kills people quite easily. But, in this case a heretofore nonlethal technique was used...

Also, police are authorized to use deadly force when warranted. The laws that apply to average citizens simply do not apply to police officers in the course of their duty. For instance, can you hand-cuff someone and take them off somewhere, lock them up, based on the assumption they have committed some kind of crime? The police can. We would be arrested and charged with kidnapping, and other things...in this case those officers were authorized to use that restraining method.

No criminal activity took place...none. Mens rea notwithstanding. NO CRIME COMMITTED.

But, the Floyd family, someone legally allowed to, can sue for wrongful death, a civil case. I think there is enough there for that.

You don’t understand felony murder.

[DONW]

There's a very easy solution to this. When you get arrested by the cops, don't fight with them. Nothing good comes out of resisting arrest. I've been harrassed before by cops for speeding tickets. As much as I wanted to be a smartass, I just sat there and said yes sir and no sir.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

There's a very easy solution to this. When you get arrested by the cops, don't fight with them. Nothing good comes out of resisting arrest. I've been harrassed before by cops for speeding tickets. As much as I wanted to be a smartass, I just sat there and said yes sir and no sir.

Yes so true. I know I taught my children to just say yes sir and do what they said. This is why the two knowing each other at another job needs to be looked into deeply.

[DONW]

Here are some tips for how you should act if you get stopped by the police. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

[dawg80]

You don’t understand felony murder.

There was no murder. Floyd died from a drug over-dose.

[turbodawg]

There was no murder. Floyd died from a drug over-dose.

Medical examiners disagree with you.

I’ll post a link below partly for this neuroscientist’s professional opinion, and partly for his social commentary.

Also, it sure seems like a lot of Minneapolis police force carries Naloxone to prevent overdose deaths from opioids, but that’s only a cursory Internet look see. I can guarantee you an EMT unit in a city that size was equipped with an appropriate response.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/o...ort-drugs.html

[dawg80]

Medical examiners disagree with you.

I’ll post a link below partly for this neuroscientist’s professional opinion, and partly for his social commentary.

Also, it sure seems like a lot of Minneapolis police force carries Naloxone to prevent overdose deaths from opioids, but that’s only a cursory Internet look see. I can guarantee you an EMT unit in a city that size was equipped with an appropriate response.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/o...ort-drugs.html

Opinion..

that's what that article is, and sheds no light whatsoever on the case.

Here's my opinion...

if Floyd was not a felon in the midst of committing another felony, was not on drugs, and had cooperated with police he'd be alive today. But, he was a felon, committing another felony, was on drugs, and did not cooperate with police...thus, he's not alive today.

Game, set and match!

[arkansasbob]

Mens rea is not needed to convict of felony murder.

i'm pretty sure there has to be intent to commit a criminal act.

[johnnylightnin]

i'm pretty sure there has to be intent to commit a criminal act.

While I think that may be an overstatement, my point (which was not clearly made) was that an intent to murder is not necessary to convict on felony murder. An intent to commit a felony is sufficient.