Scoring Question

**maddawg** · 07-13-2009, 08:24 AM

Runner on first. Batter hits a shallow pop up to center field that falls in for an apparent base hit. Runner at first (after going half way) gets thrown out at second after center fielder makes a throw for force out at second base.

Still a fielders choice?

george · 07-13-2009, 10:24 AM

yes, fielder's choice and no base hit for the batter.

dhussdawg · 07-13-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by george

yes, fielder's choice and no base hit for the batter.

Agreed, no doubt.

**maddawg** · 07-13-2009, 11:00 AM

Okay, but the center fielder didn't have a "choice" on where to throw the ball.

I'm not saying it should be ruled a base hit because an out came out of the play, just curious if how to score it since it didn't meet the definition of an F.C.

dhussdawg · 07-13-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddawg

Okay, but the center fielder didn't have a "choice" on where to throw the ball.

I'm not saying it should be ruled a base hit because an out came out of the play, just curious if how to score it since it didn't meet the definition of an F.C.

Well, the same can be said about a grounder back up the middle where the SS has to dive. He only has a chance to flip the ball to the second baseman, in order to get an out. He has no chance at getting the runner at first, but it would still be called a fielder's choice.

**maddawg** · 07-13-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhussdawg

Well, the same can be said about a grounder back up the middle where the SS has to dive. He only has a chance to flip the ball to the second baseman, in order to get an out. He has no chance at getting the runner at first, but it would still be called a fielder's choice.

I'm not sure that one meets the FC definition either if the fielder didn't have a "choice".

T_Won · 07-13-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddawg

Okay, but the center fielder didn't have a "choice" on where to throw the ball.

I'm not saying it should be ruled a base hit because an out came out of the play, just curious if how to score it since it didn't meet the definition of an F.C.

Here's the definition of Fielder's Choice:

fielder's choice (abbreviated FC) is a term used to refer to a variety of plays involving an offensive player reaching a base due to the defense's attempt to put out another baserunner, or the defensive team's indifference to his advance.

Had the Center Fielder thrown to 1st Base (and failed to throw the batter out), it would have been ruled a hit.

Guisslapp · 07-13-2009, 12:19 PM

I would take away the base runner's hit for being so slow.

***DocMarvin362*** · 07-13-2009, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddawg

Runner on first. Batter hits a shallow pop up to center field that falls in for an apparent base hit. Runner at first (after going half way) gets thrown out at second after center fielder makes a throw for force out at second base.

Still a fielders choice?

It's up to the official scorer.. if he/she felt that the fielder had ANY chance to throw out the runner at 1st, then it should be ruled as a Fielder's Choice. If the batter-runner made the base with no real threat of being thrown out, then it should be ruled as a single and the runner was just forced out.

"the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner."

That highlighted line and the wording is what gives me the opinion that I have. Luckily, Umpires don't have to worry about statistics.

zharkins · 07-23-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocMarvin362

It's up to the official scorer.. if he/she felt that the fielder had ANY chance to throw out the runner at 1st, then it should be ruled as a Fielder's Choice. If the batter-runner made the base with no real threat of being thrown out, then it should be ruled as a single and the runner was just forced out.

"the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner."

That highlighted line and the wording is what gives me the opinion that I have. Luckily, Umpires don't have to worry about statistics.

Wrong. It is a fielders choice even if the guy breaks his leg running from first to second and the ball is hit off the wall and the outfielder walks back into the infield and tags the guy out. It doesn't matter. If the forced runner is put out before he reaches the base he must get to, it is a fielders choice.

dhussdawg · 07-23-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zharkins

Wrong. It is a fielders choice even if the guy breaks his leg running from first to second and the ball is hit off the wall and the outfielder walks back into the infield and tags the guy out. It doesn't matter. If the forced runner is put out before he reaches the base he must get to, it is a fielders choice.

Agreed, if the runner advancing gets put out before reaching second, it is a FC no matter what. The only gray area possibly is when a fielder tries to get the advancing runner out but fails to, thus both the runner and batter are safe. If the scorer believes that the fielder could have thrown the batter out at first, they will call it a FC. If it was a diving play and the only option was to try to get the runner advancing from first to second, but failed to do so, then it is a hit. Is that true?

zharkins · 07-23-2009, 01:48 PM

Correct

***DocMarvin362*** · 07-23-2009, 01:58 PM

What's the difference in those 2 scenarios?? A batter hits the ball to the wall has NO CHANCE of being put out, but the runner at second breaks his leg, so that's a Fielder's Choice, but if the SS makes a diving stop and has NO CHANCE to get the batter and instead gets the runner, then it's a hit???

You are contradicting your own OPINION.

Woods Dawg · 07-14-2009, 07:22 AM

Another one. Runner on 1st, batter hits ground ball that hits the runner going to second, the runner is out but how is it scored? Is the batter credited with a hit?

**maddawg** · 07-14-2009, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woods Dawg

Another one. Runner on 1st, batter hits ground ball that hits the runner going to second, the runner is out but how is it scored? Is the batter credited with a hit?

Interesting. I actually saw this one happen for the third out in a game Sunday night and wondered how it would be scored. The hit ball would have clearly been a hit and a probable RBI for the batter, but the DA 3rd base coach didn't tell the kid to let the ball clear. Kid ran on contact and never saw the ball coming.

I don't have any idea how this would be or was scored.

07-13-2009, 08:24 AM	#1
maddawg Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 13,986 Blog Entries: 7	Scoring Question Runner on first. Batter hits a shallow pop up to center field that falls in for an apparent base hit. Runner at first (after going half way) gets thrown out at second after center fielder makes a throw for force out at second base. Still a fielders choice? __________________ Hey you cheated! - karl benson

07-13-2009, 10:24 AM	#2
george Champ Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,169	Re: Scoring Question yes, fielder's choice and no base hit for the batter.

07-13-2009, 11:00 AM	#4
maddawg Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 13,986 Blog Entries: 7	Re: Scoring Question Okay, but the center fielder didn't have a "choice" on where to throw the ball. I'm not saying it should be ruled a base hit because an out came out of the play, just curious if how to score it since it didn't meet the definition of an F.C. __________________ Hey you cheated! - karl benson

07-13-2009, 12:19 PM	#8
Guisslapp Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Dirty South Posts: 12,599	Re: Scoring Question I would take away the base runner's hit for being so slow. __________________ Jordan Mills on choosing Tech: “It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”

07-23-2009, 01:48 PM	#12
zharkins Big Dog Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frisco, TX Posts: 633	Re: Scoring Question Correct __________________ But then again, who cares what I think...

07-23-2009, 01:58 PM	#13
*DocMarvin362* Administrator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 10,291	Re: Scoring Question What's the difference in those 2 scenarios?? A batter hits the ball to the wall has NO CHANCE of being put out, but the runner at second breaks his leg, so that's a Fielder's Choice, but if the SS makes a diving stop and has NO CHANCE to get the batter and instead gets the runner, then it's a hit??? You are contradicting your own OPINION. __________________ Learn from the mistakes of others—you can't live long enough to make them all yourself. – Martin Vanbee

07-14-2009, 07:22 AM	#14
Woods Dawg Puppy Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ruston Posts: 57	Re: Scoring Question Another one. Runner on 1st, batter hits ground ball that hits the runner going to second, the runner is out but how is it scored? Is the batter credited with a hit?

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