Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
The legality/constitutionality of abortion is well settled. We don't protect non-conscious human life the same as conscious human life. Else, you couldn't remove cancer or dead people would have rights. We don't protect potential human life either - as every sperm and egg carries part of that potential.
Easy to have an opinion on this subject as a man. If no one but women had a say abortion would be even more protected. If their opinions ever change on the subject, I am willing to reconsider mine.
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
The legality/constitutionality of abortion is well settled. We don't protect non-conscious human life the same as conscious human life. Else, you couldn't remove cancer or dead people would have rights. We don't protect potential human life either - as every sperm and egg carries part of that potential.
Easy to have an opinion on this subject as a man. If no one but women had a say abortion would be even more protected. If their opinions ever change on the subject, I am willing to reconsider mine.
The legality of slavery is a well settled issue...what a bad argument. Cancer and dead people are a poor comparison for reasons that don't even need to be spelled out.
Why in the world would you need to be a woman in order to think clearly on this issue? Do you need to be in the military to think logically about military spending? If that's your measuring stick, I'll offer this: you were a fetus. Thankfully, you were cared for and nurtured. Thankfully, you never had anyone try and snuff your life out. Perhaps we should only let dead fetuses weigh in on the legality of abortion.
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skilldawg
I agree 100 percent, but are Clinton or Trump going to push the pro-life, no exception position? If they are not then using Johnson's position on abortion as a reason not to vote for him is ludicrous.
A fine point, but I think it's a little different for 3rd parties. We're often implored not to make compromises and choose the lesser of two evils. Choose the libertarian! Sometimes the libertarian is still one of the lesser of two evils.
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rockdog
Like others have mentioned, most libertarians aren't for or against "abortion". Most libertarians realize it isn't their job to make that decision, but since a few have thrown out "baby killers", you don't get to be high and mighty when you are for protecting the child in the womb but don't give much concern once they are born.
I also don't understand how some people make a presidential decision based off a man's view on abortion. Illegal abortion is a nightmare, and it does nothing to help the situation. You simply drive into alleys, bed medical practices, and other bad alternatives. It's not a fun topic, but as someone who leans libertarian, I honestly do not feel it is my best move to make that decision for any woman and/or family in such a scenario.
This is a fair criticism. Which is why the vast majority of pro-life leaders (I mean that as leaders in the local community, not just politically or what have you) have adopted many children for this exact reason. Voddie Baucham, a black minister whom I respect enormously, has adopted 7 kids to save them from abortion. Maybe more by now. So I agree that it is a thing we should *also* be concerned about. But in my experience, those who are serious about ending abortion are also serious about providing for a life after birth.
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnnylightnin
The legality of slavery is a well settled issue...what a bad argument. Cancer and dead people are a poor comparison for reasons that don't even need to be spelled out.
Why in the world would you need to be a woman in order to think clearly on this issue? Do you need to be in the military to think logically about military spending? If that's your measuring stick, I'll offer this: you were a fetus. Thankfully, you were cared for and nurtured. Thankfully, you never had anyone try and snuff your life out. Perhaps we should only let dead fetuses weigh in on the legality of abortion.
They are apt comparisons for a zygote.
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Women's opinions count way more on this subject because it is their body.
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
Women's opinions count way more on this subject because it is their body.
There are two bodies involved. The pregnant woman "owns" one of them (the other one may or may not be a female).
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
They are apt comparisons for a zygote.
No, they're not. Cancer cells, despite their stage of development are never entitled to constitutional protections. All lacks of consciousness are not equal...why in the world would they be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
Women's opinions count way more on this subject because it is their body.
Do we give more weight to the opinions of those with annoying spouses when drafting domestic abuse laws? Are those with really depressing lives disproportionately represented when we make public intoxication laws? I'm sure there are examples of taking greater consideration because of gender, or situation, but never to justify ending a life.
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
Women's opinions count way more on this subject because it is their body.
The baby had it's own DNA. It's own body. That said, only gun owners should have a say on gun rights.
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
Women's opinions count way more on this subject because it is their body.
Also, you knew there are Atheists that are Pro-Life right? The two don't conflict.
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
Women's opinions count way more on this subject because it is their body.
Nope, there is the women's body, the baby's body and the husband's child. This truly involves 3 humans. And that's no to mention what's right in God's eyes and law.
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bigdog13
The baby had it's own DNA. It's own body. That said, only gun owners should have a say on gun rights.
Oh....I like that one.
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
Only taxpayers should have a say (a vote) on taxes.
Re: 2016 Presidential Campaign
How will outlawing abortion help? Outlawing, banning, and the such will simply force the practice underground, to unsafe locales, and result in serious consequences for most involved. You don't have to like it or support it. No Supreme Court justice or president can do anything about abortion.
You simply provide as many resources as possible to prevent the act, but Thinking you just ban the act is primitive thinking.
