Yes, but it wasn't relevant because Z couldn't retreat with M on top of him.Originally Posted by philgarris
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Yes, but it wasn't relevant because Z couldn't retreat with M on top of him.
So says Z, no one will ever really know what happened that night. No matter what it is a tragedy all the way around.
No one ever really knows what happened in court cases. They just hear the evidence and make a decision based on the law.
True, but Z's story was also consistent with witness accounts and physical evidence.
Obama, Holder et al keep talking about how SYG laws promote violence, but they are ignoring that what SYG laws really do is promote the idea of avoiding physical altercations. You have no right to violently attack someone else. If you choose to do so, you might get shot, and the person that shoots you might be protected from criminal liability. That should be a powerful deterrent from getting into a fight - assuming you are at least somewhat intelligent.
That's a great point. If they do-away with SYG, you wouldn't have the right to shoot someone who is beating you to death.
Self defense laws vary by state, but all states that I am aware of allow you to use deadly force to defend against deadly force. The differences lie in whether you have an obligation to retreat, if possible, and whether you have an obligation to retreat in your own home.
Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
“It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”
The race issue is unfortunately causing many people to miss a particularly useful teaching moment.
People generally have the right to follow you and verbally confront you when you are in public. That, by itself, does not give you a right to punch someone. Being macho in these situations (how Rachel Jeantel suggested Trayvon would have acted in this situation) can get you killed. Your life is more important than your ego.
Instead, the talking heads are suggesting that parents talk to their kids about how fast or slow they should walk. SMH.
I don't mean to suggest that is the only teaching moment in all of this. They are many, but this is the one that seems to be getting completely missed.
Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
“It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”
There are 15000-16000 homicides each year in the United States. Almost 7000 of those murder victims were black (43% of all murder victims, and 94% of that 43% were killed by blacks). Blacks commit 51% of all murders in the US, yet make up only 13% of the population. There is certainly a racial aspect to murder in this country, and it's not because Hispanics are killing blacks. This whole Zimmerman thing is nothing more than a diversion to keep everyone from focusing on the real issues.
But you can't say that or it makes you a racist.
I was offended when Eric Holder said America is "a nation of cowards" because we are scared to talk about race. I now think he was speaking truth, and I didn't realize it at the time (you can throw Islamaphobia in there too). We are scared to call radical Muslims "terrorists." We need to know if prisons are mostly populated with blacks because police officers are mostly racists... or if it's because blacks commit legitimate crimes more often than others. Let's talk about it.
Arkansas doesn't have a stand your ground law, but, according to the cop that taught my concealed weapon course, if there is someone on top of me beating the hell out of me, I have the right to pull my weapon and shoot him. The funniest thing I've heard in comments about this whole thing, is people saying that Martin was unarmed when Zimmerman shot him. Martin wasn't old enough to have a CC permit, and, if he hadn't attacked Zimmerman, he wouldn't have been shot.
You may be correct but if Zimmerman had followed directions none of this would have ever happened so you can't say fault is all on one side. There is no winner in this mess, everyone is a loser. Zimmerman has to live the rest of his life knowing he killed a person that his own actions caused due to him not following directions. Zimmerman was already convicted and no court in the country can get him out of that, he has to live the rest of his life knowing that his inability to do what he was told put him in a situation where he felt he had to kill to live.
My heart goes out to Trayvon Martins family this is something you never wish on anyone even your worst enemy but I also feel sad for Zimmerman the guilt he has to live with knowing that he in to blame in part due to the choices made.
Very sad for everyone.
Now here is an opportunity for me to learn! I agree that Zimmerman was too aggressive trying to protect his community. He was a "wanna-be cop" who was not as skilled as the real police. But why should he feel guilt by shooting someone who was beating the hell out of him? I don't think he feels any guilt at all.
This is the disconnect b/t the black and white community in a nutshell. Trayvon was just minding his own business vs Zimmerman shot him for beating his ass. Which is true? Can they both be true? What would a jury say (not guilty.. but they were all white / Hispanic). Blacks think Trayvon was just eating Skittles and got shot by a "white Hispanic." Hispanics and whites think Zimmerman was being attacked by Trayvon and defended himself. If Zimmerman shot an innocent man, he should feel guilty. But, if he shot a potential threat to the community who was kicking his ass, he should feel like a hero. Which is it?
After the fact, Zimmerman realizes Trayvon was just a knucklehead, but he didn't know that at the time he shot him. Right?
According to testimony given in the trial, Martin was the one that attacked Zimmerman and knocked him to the ground and got on top of him and was hitting him in the face and bashing his head on the concrete. If I had been in Zimmerman's place I would have shot him, too. This young lady didn't attack anybody and there was no outcry or marching in the streets for her and she was an honor student. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...n-chicago?lite. What is the difference in her death and Travon Martin's? Did nobody except her family care that she died a violent death just because she happened to be standing in the wrong place.
Here is what people don't seem to get, we will never know exactly what happened with Trayvon and Zimmerman because there is no direct record of the events after the 9-1-1 call ended.
Witness says Trayvon was on top but can they be 100% sure, it was dark so we can't be 100% sure. We heard screaming on the second 9-1-1 call and then we heard a gun shot. The screaming ceased immediately there was no tapering off of the screaming it was just done.
I could be wrong but I know in emotional states of mind when the adrenaline is going you can't just stop something unless you have been silenced. I just suggest this if it were Zimmerman screaming for his life even after the gunshot would his screaming not have tapered off? I mean he was just screaming bloody gut wrenching screams would he gain his composure that fast. I know I wouldn't, I would still be trying to get myself together and see get my bearings about me.
We only know 100% for sure what the 9-1-1 calls played and even on the screaming we have no way of knowing 100% for sure who was doing the screaming. We don't know because we were not there, that is why I say there are no winners in this and I just can't wrap my head around how an individual could not have guilt knowing they took a life even if to save their own life.
I would be haunted by that for the rest of my life.
I also ask you this if Trayvon had been of age and armed with a gun, would he have been justified in killing Zimmerman for following him and Trayvon standing his ground?
That question was asked the other day and if any other answer than yes comes out then a conversation needs to be had over that law.
My heart goes out on both sides of the courtroom but always remember we will only ever hear one side of the total story as it unfolded.
Don that story about the young lady is another horrible event of many and it should have received the same media out cry are you aware if they ever found the person or people that shot her?
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