Spoon

[Dwayne From Minden]

And if y'all have any doubts of my tolerance ask Gary - he knows it takes a lot to push our buttons but once they are pushed you will not like the results -

Phil you have been a long time member and ought to know we don't jump in but Kiwi crossed WAY over the line and then only reason he wasn't booted from the first over the line post was because he was a player's parent

[sportdawg]

Where the heck is since65 when you Want a thread hijacked?

australia

[Kiwi Techster]

[Dawg06]

[johnnylightnin]

Hoping this is our next coach:

[rabiddawg]

Does this = a triple dawg dare?

[hambone29]

My friends in LaTech,
The evidence for an Intelligent Designer/God (ID) is everywhere around you. A great example is the news that scientists just discovered a second DNA language below the one they currently knew about. This is utterly mind-blowing. Now, either God designed this or random rolls of the dice created this. Anyone with just a minor knowledge of math can tell you that random-ness, out of chaos, simply could not do this. You would literally have a better chance to roll dice and win the lottery everytime for centuries.

Actually, the ID was proven by science in 1998. That year, the Hubble Telescope was used to prove that the Universe was not just expanding but that the expansion was accelerating. Before this, the "consensus" among astronomers was that the expansion would eventually slow due to gravity and eventually revert back to the singularity where the Big Bang started, and they thought this occurred over and over. Expand, contract, rinse, repeat. Now, they have proven that the Big Bang was a one time event.

All reactions have a cause. A ball doesn't start rolling down a table without something pushing it. The Big Bang could not have simply happened. Something/Someone, started it. Something outside our Universe exists. All of the causes and reactions have to have a beginning. The best explanation for this an ID.

Christians are frequently accused of not believing or using science to see the real world. I now challenge you to use science to open your eyes. There is simply way way too much complexity without there being an Intelligent Designer.

Our Earth resides in a Goldilocks zone, as does our solar system, out in the farthest reaches of one of the arms of the galaxy, far far from the serious dangers of the inner parts.

The recent show Cosmos from last week, don't remember the channel, said that life on Earth would not exist without the Moon. And, we would not have the Moon without an absolutely perfect angle to the collision with another planetoid.

And, I'm not even getting into all of the cosmological constants where scientists say that life in our Universe could not exist without them being at an absolute perfect value.

All of nature and its complexity and all of the cosmological constants and its perfection is overwhelming evidence for a complex intelligent planned design. With science, I can easily say that you have to have far far more faith that there is NOT an Intelligent Designer/God than I do to believe He exists.

Now, my challenge for you is: show me the evidence for the "random roll of the dice" theory.

With all your degrees, and having taught physics, surely you realize this entire post is your reasoning for your beliefs. The world is just too complex to be explained, therefore there has to be a God. While many people share that reasoning, it doesn't make it fact. You look around and see evidence that God exists, where others look around and see evidence that God doesn't exist. To each his own.

And I'm not sure how "all of the causes and reactions have to have a beginning" points toward God's existence. Where did God begin? What existed before God? Who created God? Where and when was the actual beginning?

[Cool Hand Clyde]

No one will have to worry about skating on thin ice in hell.

[johnnylightnin]

And I'm not sure how "all of the causes and reactions have to have a beginning" points toward God's existence. Where did God begin? What existed before God? Who created God? Where and when was the actual beginning?

What they point to is an uncaused cause…a prime mover. If everything we are able to observe has a cause, we can conclude that something outside of the rules of what we observe is acting upon what we observe. That doesn't get you to the God of the Bible, but it gets us beyond naturalism.

[hambone29]

What they point to is an uncaused cause…a prime mover. If everything we are able to observe has a cause, we can conclude that something outside of the rules of what we observe is acting upon what we observe. That doesn't get you to the God of the Bible, but it gets us beyond naturalism.

I'm just saying that if we point to a beginning, and that beginning is when "God created (_)," why be satisfied there? When and where is the actual beginning? What was before God created Earth, and Heaven and Hell? I realize there is no answer to this, I'm just pointing it out. People pick and choose what to use and what to ignore when backing their arguments. This thread is full of it. To some, complexity points to a master orchestrator, but to others it just shows how randomly and perfectly the stars aligned in order for life to exist on Earth. I think there is something bigger than us, but I don't think books written by man thousands of years ago hold the answers. I could be wrong.
For me personally, I just have a hard time believing that humans here on tiny little Earth are the center of the great big universe. Maybe we are, but I have my doubts.
One thing is for certain: no one that is living and breathing knows what happens to us when we die. Faith and beliefs are comforting, but the fact is no one knows...

[Kiwi Techster]

I'm just saying that if we point to a beginning, and that beginning is when "God created (_)," why be satisfied there? When and where is the actual beginning? What was before God created Earth, and Heaven and Hell? I realize there is no answer to this, I'm just pointing it out. People pick and choose what to use and what to ignore when backing their arguments. This thread is full of it. To some, complexity points to a master orchestrator, but to others it just shows how randomly and perfectly the stars aligned in order for life to exist on Earth. I think there is something bigger than us, but I don't think books written by man thousands of years ago hold the answers. I could be wrong.
For me personally, I just have a hard time believing that humans here on tiny little Earth are the center of the great big universe. Maybe we are, but I have my doubts.
One thing is for certain: no one that is living and breathing knows what happens to us when we die. Faith and beliefs are comforting, but the fact is no one knows...

Are you sure you want to start polluting this thread with reasonable statements and common sense?

[MiloBumP]

I'm just saying that if we point to a beginning, and that beginning is when "God created (_)," why be satisfied there? When and where is the actual beginning? What was before God created Earth, and Heaven and Hell? I realize there is no answer to this, I'm just pointing it out. People pick and choose what to use and what to ignore when backing their arguments. This thread is full of it. To some, complexity points to a master orchestrator, but to others it just shows how randomly and perfectly the stars aligned in order for life to exist on Earth. I think there is something bigger than us, but I don't think books written by man thousands of years ago hold the answers. I could be wrong.
For me personally, I just have a hard time believing that humans here on tiny little Earth are the center of the great big universe. Maybe we are, but I have my doubts.
One thing is for certain: no one that is living and breathing knows what happens to us when we die. Faith and beliefs are comforting, but the fact is no one knows...

I am no Bible scholar but I just taught a SS lesson that states that Genesis 1 actually says "in beginning" in its original language not "In the beginning" therefore Yahweh was, is, and always will be forever and ever...

[MiloBumP]

Are you sure you want to start polluting this thread with reasonable statements and common sense?

KIWI, what is your purpose on Earth? What do you believe happens when you die?

I am not judging but just curious of your mind set? People that really study with an open mind and want to prove that God did not create nor does He exists usually see the Light. Your eternal destiny depends on how you answer that question. The simple argument is if you don't believe and are right you die and whatever you believe takes place. If you are wrong in your belief and God exists and you have rejected Him/Jesus, then you really have lost. What does it hurt to believe. I hope you truly start a quest along with Chris and others to disprove His existence. Enjoy the journey. Life is short and every day is a gift, and I choose to believe. Not only do I believe, but I KNOW what He has done in my life and for others.

[Kiwi Techster]

KIWI, what is your purpose on Earth?

I believe our collective purpose should be to try and create a world/society that our minds want to be in. Therefore, by extension, my purpose should be to contribute to that project as best as I can.

What do you believe happens when you die?

I can't say for sure obviously, but my best guess is that the lights just go out and my conciousness will evaporate, not dissimilar to what happens when we go to sleep. That's what I believe happens to a mosquito or a dog, so I don't have much problem extending that same belief to humans (we are after all based on a similar genetic code). Or another way to think about it: it's not hard for me to imagine the world in 1900 which didn't contain my conciousness, so in a similar vein it's not too hard for me to imagine the world in 2100 which also doesn't contain my conciousness.

[Kiwi Techster]

I am not judging but just curious of your mind set? People that really study with an open mind and want to prove that God did not create nor does He exists usually see the Light. Your eternal destiny depends on how you answer that question. The simple argument is if you don't believe and are right you die and whatever you believe takes place. If you are wrong in your belief and God exists and you have rejected Him/Jesus, then you really have lost. What does it hurt to believe.

This is just Pascal's Wager and it is very easy to refute. Just google something like "pascal's wager refuted" and you will basically get a million different versions of my answer. Sorry for my laziness, but I really do believe message boards are a terrible and time-consuming medium to carry on conversations like this.