Isn't it time for your bread and games?Originally Posted by cscollis
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Isn't it time for your bread and games?
It's time to close the doors to the Temple of Janus.
Wait ... did I just get called a liberal?
Tyler, your right, these are end times.
It's time to close the doors to the Temple of Janus.
Sooner, I don't think your response was an emotional one. It was very much on point. I would have liked to of read your statements on the subject regardless of how anyone else's mind is made up.
You still haven't explained why having illegal immigrants in the USA is good for anyone except the illegal.
News isn't news anymore. They don't report facts without putting their agenda's spin on it. People like to read and watch news that reinforces their beliefs.
I am a ultra conservative on fiscal issues and a libertarian on social issues. When both conflict, I go with what makes sense fiscally.
So yea, I have made up my mind because I have not heard a single benefit for having open borders.
Thank you. I long to discuss this topic with anybody who is really interested in trying to understand. I certainly don't claim to understand it all, but I have tried very hard to get there. I will be happy to discuss this with you, especially if you disagree with me.
The topic I chose out of CSC's first post was the statement that "[t]here is no benefit to having illegals in the US." I picked that one, because that statement seems a bit absurd. Clearly, they have to live somewhere. They rent houses, so rental property owners benefit. They have to eat, so grocery stores benefit. They buy clothes. They buy televisions.
Now, lets put them back in Honduras or in the Yucatan. They would be dirt poor. They would be bathing in the river. They would be working all day to save money to by a cinder block for the house they have been building block by block for the last five years. There is no way they could afford to buy our products.
That does not mean I think that this in and of itself would justify opening the borders. But, there is clearly a benefit from taking them from a place where they cannot buy our products and allowing them to live in a place where they can. In other words, there really is an entry in the plus column.
It's time to close the doors to the Temple of Janus.
i am James Wilkerson, serious student of antiquity and lover of philosophy. When it comes to music, I think the finale of The Marriage of Figaro was when music peaked. It has been all downhill from there. I think Marcus Aurelius was the greatest leader who has ever lived, including Ronald Reagan, but he blew it by bequeathing the purple to his natural son. I believe my wife is smoking hot.
Now you know what I believe in.
It's time to close the doors to the Temple of Janus.
I disagree. If the illegal was not here, an American would have the job at a higher wage. That american would not need welfare because of having a job at a decent wage. So illegals paying for essentials does not move me because any money left over would not be used to purchase a TV but be sent to their home contry. You also didn't address that the illegals don't pay taxes which is one of my major issues.
I do feel sorry that they are from a 3rd world country but they should be sent home. Sort of like if I broke into your house, eat your food and refuse to leave. I guess you would let me stay.
Sooner, I am not a irrational person. If I could find a single benefit for illegal immigration that didn't have 5 detremental effects I would love for them to stay. I would prefer that Americans receiving welfare have a better shot at a better life than an illegal. Unless you have a better argument on why the illegals should stay, I believe the debate is over. The argument that an employed illegal is a benefit because they would buy items from companies ignores the fact that if they were not here an American would have that job, buying the same items and would no longer need as much welfare.
How does an "illegal" go to Walmart and buy anything without paying taxes? How does an "illegal" go to an Exxon service station and buy gas for his/her without paying taxes? How does an "illegal" buy lunch at McDonald's without paying taxes?
cscollis, have you met an American recently? We REFUSE to do those jobs no matter how desperate our situation. But someone has to do them, and it's not going to be the expensive American.
Easy they move to Oregon that doesn't have a sales tax. How much does the illegal pay in SS, Medicare and income tax? You realize the the employer matches SS and medicare which is over 10 percent combined. You think that's fair?
There's no fuel tax in Oregon?
I agree their are a lot of lazy Americans but the easiest way to motivate a lazy person is to make it difficult for them to live their lazy life. Depot illegals and end welfare, they will take the job or they don't eat. It worked in american for more than 150 years so I can assume that the welfare state is just as much of a problem as illegals.
I will make one last attempt to have a civil conversation with you. But, I have no desire to talk about all of your "issues" all at one time. We can get to them individually quickly enough.
What you said was there was no benefit. I will concede to you that some Americans will be injured by immigrants. More will benefit.
If this were true, would they not be living in the same abject poverty they risked their lives to flee from?
It's time to close the doors to the Temple of Janus.
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