Injury Update

[DONW]

I am still convinced that if I was the ref at the time that I would not have thrown a flag on that hit. Sitting in the stands at the game and watching it happen the thought of it being a penalty never crossed my mind.

If you are a defensive player and you are not willing to slobber-knock an opponent in the exact same way then join the debate team and vote for Hillary.

Unfortunately, too many defenders try to make tackles by delivering crushing hits like the one on Carlos, but fail. Then we get to scream at them for not wrapping up on tackles. The Rice defender would have been more likely to LEAD with his helmet if he had attempted to wrap up on the tackle. I see him leading with his shoulder to Carlos' chest / shoulder and following through with his arm. In that collision there was helmet-to-helmet contact. I still do not think it gets a flag.

I strongly disagree with you and I've watched it several times in slow motion. He leads with his helmet and hits Henderson on the lower left side oif his helmet. You see Henderson's helmet turn almost 90 degrees from the hit. It wouldn't have been called 50 years ago when I played, but, the rules have changed to try to protect the players from getting head injuries and it should have been a targeting call and Banks should have been ejected.

[DONW]

All this talk. Someone post a replay. I remember that Henderson had all the momentum and slammed into the DB. If the DB at the same time was moving and led with his helmet I don't remember it. The DB staggered around a bit after the hit, also. I would like to see it again before I made a judgement.

Banks approached Henderson at close to a 90 degree angle. Guess what happens when an object traveling at the same speed hits another at 90 degrees. I think I could have figured that out even before I took Dynamics under Professor Middleton.

[HogDawg]

Unfortunately Henderson shouldn't have been standing straight up. (Nobody ever wants to talk about that.) Henderson left himself wide open for a shot like that because he was not in a football position ready for impact. It boggled my mind that Henderson apparently didn't see this Rice DB and didn't prepare for the impact any better than he did. Again, Henderson was not a defenseless receiver, he was already running the ball for a while before contact. He was a runner, cutting slightly back across the middle of the field. Henderson SHOULD have seen the Rice DB coming across the middle.

I do agree that it looks like the Rice DB led with his helmet.

[DONW]

Unfortunately Henderson shouldn't have been standing straight up. (Nobody ever wants to talk about that.) Henderson left himself wide open for a shot like that because he was not in a football position ready for impact. It boggled my mind that Henderson apparently didn't see this Rice DB and didn't prepare for the impact any better than he did. Again, Henderson was not a defenseless receiver, he was already running the ball for a while before contact. He was a runner, cutting slightly back across the middle of the field. Henderson SHOULD have seen the Rice DB coming across the middle.

I do agree that it looks like the Rice DB led with his helmet.

Birds can look 90 degrees to the side because their eyes are on the side of their head, but, humans eyes look straight ahead. Henderson was going full out toward the endzone and never saw the DB coming. It doesn't matter whether he's defenseless or not, when a player aims his helmet at another player's helmet, it's an illegal hit. It should have been called.

[HogDawg]

Birds can look 90 degrees to the side because their eyes are on the side of their head, but, humans eyes look straight ahead. Henderson was going full out toward the endzone and never saw the DB coming. It doesn't matter whether he's defenseless or not, when a player aims his helmet at another player's helmet, it's an illegal hit. It should have been called.

No....Henderson was cutting BACK across the field trying to outrun a couple of would-be tacklers. He was moving more east than south at that particular time, and the hitter came from the east/northeast. It was a vicious hit. I was there and saw it in live action.I was just shocked that Henderson didn't see the DB coming.

[zharkins]

Ok, just for clarification, helmet to helmet hits or facemask to helmet hits are not automatically penalties.

There are two ways to get the penalty and get ejected.

1) Hitting a player with the crown of your helmet while launching yourself upward and forward to hit the head or neck area.

2) Hitting a defenseless player in the head or neck with your helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow, or shoulder.

Carlos was not a defenseless player on that play.

So it is legal to make a normal tackle where you hit a player in the head, as long as it is not with the crown of your helmet.

Here is a free link to the rulebook..

http://www.ncfafootball.com/resources/Rules/FR15.pdf

It is Rule 9, Section 1, Article 3 and 4.

[rmc020]

Yep, no penalty. He definitely wasn't defenseless as he had the ball for 20 or so yards already. There's no rule against "helmet to helmet" contact if the ball carrier isn't defenseless. It's the crown of the helmet aka a spear. It was definitely helmet to helmet contact but was a legal hit and is on Henderson for not being aware. Listen to skip's press conference he says the same thing.

[Houston Techsan]

I was there, too, and without the benefit of slow motion replay I thought it was a hard hit but legal. I thought the DB got a good lick, too. Remember if it was helmet to helmet, the DB's helmet got hit, too, since Henderson was moving toward him. As others have noted, Henderson was not defenseless but moving pretty hard and fast. The DB might brace his neck for impact, but his head was still inside that helmet.

[LEEDAWG]

I strongly disagree with you and I've watched it several times in slow motion. He leads with his helmet and hits Henderson on the lower left side oif his helmet. You see Henderson's helmet turn almost 90 degrees from the hit. It wouldn't have been called 50 years ago when I played, but, the rules have changed to try to protect the players from getting head injuries and it should have been a targeting call and Banks should have been ejected.

That is fine. I still have the viewpoint it was legal. I see the head-to-head contact as secondary to main upper body blow, but with the unfortunate collateral damage of a concussion. If Carlos was reaching out for a catch or if Banks leaves his feet to make the collision then I say throw the flag. The referees have to decide in real time. If Carlos stays down hurt then I wonder if they would have thrown the flag late. I have seen on many occasions where the refs throw the flag to err on the side of caution and then let the review process determine the final outcome. Maybe in the least that is what should have happened.

Still amazes me Carlos held onto the ball and immediately got up and walked off the field under such control. He may be pissing blood all week, but you wouldn't know it.

I should already know this but do the NFL and NCAA have the same rules regarding targeting? Did the Dallas guy (Heath) get penalized for his hit that knocked out and concussed that Seattle player (Lockette) in yesterdays game?

[DONW]

I've played it over several times in slow motion and it was a helmet to helmet hit. That's an illegal hit and should have drawn a penalty flag.

[Dogsince65]

Dirty RICE!

. There was play later in game when Trent chose to level a Rice d back rather than pick up few extra yards . Trent leveled the guy! I was so proud of the message he sent

[Dogsince65]

Yep. We still do not match up well with WKU. Just dont want another offensive show down - though it might be close again, we tend to fizzle out around 40 pts while WKU stops scoring when the clock stops ticking. If I thought we could rush for 200-250 yds we could shorten the game but running the ball hasnt been our strength. I would rather play Marshall. However, first things first, we got to win out.

. Carefull what you wish for. I think Marshall has great shot at making your wish come true. I personally think the coaches, team and die hards want a rematch. As Rick says, too be the man you have to beat the man. ---- gotta beat S Miss first

[ChipDog]

I've played it over several times in slow motion and it was a helmet to helmet hit. That's an illegal hit and should have drawn a penalty flag.

I was there and saw what was about to happen, and my opinion is it was not intentional head to head contact in fact #19 left the game after the next play and I believe it was because of lingering effects of that hit. #19 seemed also to be unprepared for the way the contact played out as well. His body was almost vertical at contact.

Also I am not a fan of that penalty.

[DONW]

I was there and saw what was about to happen, and my opinion is it was not intentional head to head contact in fact #19 left the game after the next play and I believe it was because of lingering effects of that hit. #19 seemed also to be unprepared for the way the contact played out as well. His body was almost vertical at contact.

Also I am not a fan of that penalty.

You need to replay it in slow motion and look at it again. He aimed the top of his helmet at the left side where the face mask begins. You can see how his head snaps close to 90 degrees when he makes contact. Then Ibe gets in his face running his mouth when he's trying to get up. They should have thrown a flag for that. This Rice team was one of the dirtiest playing teams I've ever seen. I was proud of the way our team kept their composure. I'm a fan of any penalty where a blow is delivered to the head. I wish they would have had that when I played.

[ChipDog]

You need to replay it in slow motion and look at it again. He aimed the top of his helmet at the left side where the face mask begins. You can see how his head snaps close to 90 degrees when he makes contact. Then Ibe gets in his face running his mouth when he's trying to get up. They should have thrown a flag for that. This Rice team was one of the dirtiest playing teams I've ever seen. I was proud of the way our team kept their composure. I'm a fan of any penalty where a blow is delivered to the head. I wish they would have had that when I played.

As I said I am not a fan of that penalty. However I am a big fan of yours and respect your opinion. But in this case, possibly the only one, I have a differing opinion. And I am thankful more of us were not hurt worse back in the days when football was a bit more dangerous.

As a side note: I remember traveling to St. Louis to watch Pat Tilley play against Jack Tatum and the real true fear that Mrs. Tilley expressed for her son [Pat's] safety. He may even read this board and if he does he may recall telling his mom that God will look after him. And he did. In fact he had several catches that day and maybe a touchdown.