President Trump

[johnnylightnin]

Politics has never had room for perfection. Only certain people can attain perfection right? How does the scale work? I like my personal scale.


Seriously, liberals, socialists and other Trump haters only bring up the integrity BS when it is convenient for them to beat up the guy they hate.

I don't have any interest in beating up Trump. I don't consider myself a hater either. Trump is exactly who I thought he was. I think integrity is brought up, yes, to beat up Trump, but also to point out that many republicans don't judge Trump the way they judged Clinton or Obama. It's the hypocrisy that has made me switch my registration (to "no party"). For folks like me, who have never voted for a Dem for a national office, the charge that the dems are hypocrites too is a non-starter. I know they are. I thought the Republicans were striving for something more than, "they do it too".

[PawDawg]

It's NEVER been about picking the guy with the most integrity. Very few if ANY politicians have true integrity. Most public servants do. It just so happens Trump is a public servant with character flaws. We knew that going in, but for some reason his character flaws are upsetting to those who think the Republicans were Lilly White before Trump got the nomination. Truth is, he does not fit the swamp mold and the drives Trump haters crazy.

[johnnylightnin]

It's NEVER been about picking the guy with the most integrity. Very few if ANY politicians have true integrity. Most public servants do. It just so happens Trump is a public servant with character flaws. We knew that going in, but for some reason his character flaws are upsetting to those who think the Republicans were Lilly White before Trump got the nomination. Truth is, he does not fit the swamp mold and the drives Trump haters crazy.

Again, for me, it's not about Trump's integrity. It's about the integrity of SOME of his supporters who did nothing but virtue signal when they were able to have the moral high ground, but now don't seem to care about it.

[inudesu]

Also, and more to Champ's point - there are so many Trump supporters whose only line of defense for what seems to be literally any action, statement, or policy is "what about Clinton?"

I mean, if you're still defending the vote as a lesser of two evils kind of thing, then. . . I guess. But if it's "Trump all the way, baby! Let's make America great again!" and then you deflect any criticism with "look at the evil democrats" and can't even begin to imagine attempting any other defense. . . I think that's a problem.

[Champ967]

Seriously, liberals, socialists and other Trump haters only bring up the integrity BS when it is convenient for them to beat up the guy they hate.

OR, alternately -- maybe they actually do it all the time, but conservatives only notice when their own guys get outed.

Maybe? No?

OK fine. Maybe they really do wink at indiscretions by their own team. That's inexcusable and unworthy of a defense.

That still doesnt make it ok for the (ostensibly) more morally upright party to do it too. I remember when the GOP used to have (or at least claim) higher ethical standards then the Dems. Guess that was bunch of hooey ...

[PawDawg]

I remember when the GOP used to have (or at least claim) higher ethical standards then the Dems. Guess that was bunch of hooey ...

I remember when the party made that claim, but I don't remember when it was actually happening. I think what many confuse with claims of integrity by the right are actually moral absolutes on topics that even the left had some right leanings toward. I know you do and that's one reason I've always respected you.

We are playing a different game than we were in the 1950s. There has been no real integrity from either side in my lifetime. It's easy to list the moral absolutes many of us have. We don't claim to be perfect, but we have a perfect set of rules to follow. Most left leaning voters don't like rules.

[inudesu]

I remember when the party made that claim, but I don't remember when it was actually happening. I think what many confuse with claims of integrity by the right are actually moral absolutes on topics that even the left had some right leanings toward. I know you do and that's one reason I've always respected you.

We are playing a different game than we were in the 1950s. There has been no real integrity from either side in my lifetime. It's easy to list the moral absolutes many of us have. We don't claim to be perfect, but we have a perfect set of rules to follow. Most left leaning voters don't like rules.

But see, here is where we usually get someone who will point out (often in a fairly well documented way) that Trump has and is violating rules but enjoying broad GOP support. And the response is almost always just "but Obama."

Sometimes you get a "fake news" what does "is" mean debate, but usually not even that. You have to be seeing this too, right?

It's REGARDLESS of the facts.

[inudesu]

I remember when the party made that claim, but I don't remember when it was actually happening. I think what many confuse with claims of integrity by the right are actually moral absolutes on topics that even the left had some right leanings toward. I know you do and that's one reason I've always respected you.

We are playing a different game than we were in the 1950s. There has been no real integrity from either side in my lifetime. It's easy to list the moral absolutes many of us have. We don't claim to be perfect, but we have a perfect set of rules to follow. Most left leaning voters don't like rules.

But see, here is where we usually get someone who will point out (often in a fairly well documented way) that Trump has and is violating rules but enjoying broad GOP support. And the response is almost always just "but Obama."

Sometimes you get a "fake news" what does "is" mean debate, but usually not even that. You have to be seeing this too, right?

It's REGARDLESS of the facts.

[Champ967]

I remember when the party made that claim, but I don't remember when it was actually happening. I think what many confuse with claims of integrity by the right are actually moral absolutes on topics that even the left had some right leanings toward. I know you do and that's one reason I've always respected you.

We are playing a different game than we were in the 1950s. There has been no real integrity from either side in my lifetime. It's easy to list the moral absolutes many of us have. We don't claim to be perfect, but we have a perfect set of rules to follow. Most left leaning voters don't like rules.

Those are some good points, but I'm gonna take exception to the last one. Most of the left-leaners I know (and I've met a couple or three) espouse some deeply held beliefs, and fully formed understandings of what they maintain constitutes ethical behavior at the personal and societal levels.

I dont expect GOP pols to behave perfectly. But I do expect them to at least make a show of some effort. Now even that's gone.

[PawDawg]

Sometimes you get a "fake news" what does "is" mean debate, but usually not even that. You have to be seeing this too, right?

It's REGARDLESS of the facts.

What are the facts? Please list sources for your facts.

Those are some good points, but I'm gonna take exception to the last one. Most of the left-leaners I know (and I've met a couple or three) espouse some deeply held beliefs, and fully formed understandings of what they maintain constitutes ethical behavior at the personal and societal levels.

I dont expect GOP pols to behave perfectly. But I do expect them to at least make a show of some effort. Now even that's gone.

Again, It can be simplified by listing hot button issues and asking which side they fall on. Left-leaners are gonna lean left and ask for special rules or no rules.

Abortion
Immigration
1st Amendement (who would have thunk it)
2nd Amendment
Health Care
Trade Agreements
Tax Structure
Crime and Punishment

The list is long

[Champ967]

Again, It can be simplified by listing hot button issues and asking which side they fall on. Left-leaners are gonna lean left and ask for special rules or no rules.

Abortion
Immigration
1st Amendement (who would have thunk it)
2nd Amendment
Health Care
Trade Agreements
Tax Structure
Crime and Punishment

The list is long

All you have to do is give the correct answers and get R votes?

Is that all the GOP is now -- a checklist?

[PawDawg]

I forgot jobs, but that isn't a big deal to left leaners.

[PawDawg]

Really, when you get right down to it...it's all about the children.

[Guisslapp]

Really, when you get right down to it...it's all about the children.

True. For Boomer Republican Trump supporters it’s all about the children...paying for the massive deficits the boomers have been benefitting from. No way the boomers will actually contribute more than they take from America. The children will have to.

[FriscoDawg]

The map implies an even population distribution between the red and blue counties. Cow and trees dont vote.

That's also the 2016 map. Wonder why he didnt use a 2018 midterm map?

Because even the 2016 map will undercount the Trump vote as 2018 becomes more of just a blip in history.

With Trump approval among black voters topping 30% in multiple polls and no lower than the high teens in any, it seems almost certain than the black vote for Trump in 11 months will easily surpass the 8% figure from 2016. And that is something than no Dimm candidate can overcome.