Immigration

[Champ967]

ok then. Take care and be safe.

[detltu]

I think the EIT includes tighter border security in their proposal as well.

I did see that, but I would want that first. I think you have to slow down the flow before we fix the other end.

If you reward illegals with a path to citizenship you WILL incentivize illegal immigration. No matter how well we build the wall and take other measures there will always be some illegals, even if it's just expired visas cases. Nope! What we need is a show of force and make sure it gets plenty of media coverage of our troops escorting illegals to the border, and slamming the door, in our wall, behind them. ZERO TOLERANCE!

Oh, and don't fool yourself with the supposed....oh, they are just poor, poverty-stricken oppressed folks from shit hole countries! They are not. First of all, there are no "shit hole" countries! Remember how everyone said so when Trump made that reference. They are all wonderful countries that anyone would be thrilled to live in. Next, these illegals have money to start with and are further bankrolled by George Soros et al. Don't buy into the bullshit.

Not everyone falls into the same boat. And sure there will always be people entering the country illegally or overstaying their visas. That is a problem without a realistic solution in my opinion. The main problem now is the sheer number of people crossing the border illegally. It's not sustainable.

And proof that they were paying taxes was always a requirement under DACA as well.

Certainly there are some who are paying income taxes. There are certainly some who are not ( I know of some citizens and non citizens who fall into this category). Everyone pays sales tax at some point so there is always that. I honestly don't have a problem with DACA either if we get our border secured.

[Guisslapp]

You guys keep talking about border security, but most illegal immigrants were not illegal border crossers.

[MoonPieBlue]

You guys keep talking about border security, but most illegal immigrants were not illegal border crossers.

Then what were they. And please provide a source.

[johnnylightnin]

Then what were they. And please provide a source.

Really? 66% overstayed their visas. The links have been posted here ad nauseum.

[johnnylightnin]

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/68366...e-data-tell-us

[detltu]

I feel like this has been discussed, but here it is once more.

Undocumented border crossing is a misdemeanor. Roughly equivalent to a speeding ticket or shoplifting. (I would offer that petty theft by US citizens siphons off more American productivity than illegal immigrants ever have, but that's just me speculating ...)

I have a big problem with this honestly. It's true, but I think it should be much more serious than that. I guess by the same token deportation is just a slap on the wrist though.

And some laws are greater than others. City laws can be negated by a state law. Federal laws can be superseded by the Constitution. And all human law is subservient to the natural law. The right of human beings to move their persons to escape evil or seek a better life comes from none less than their Creator. (We all still agree that the function of human law is protect, not to infringe, God-given rights, yes?)

True, but you do not have the right to move wherever you would like to escape evil or seek a better life. Particularly when there is an option of doing things legally versus illegally.

Imagine you're rushing an injured loved one to the emergency room and you run a stop sign. You therefore committed a crime, and now you're a criminal. Again, I hope we call all agree that the need for immediate medical care in such a scenario is greater than the law to come to a complete stop at an intersection. We can come up with more examples like this, but you get the idea ...

Certainly there are instances where the consequences of breaking the law are outweighed by the benefits. No one should expect to get away without facing those consequences though. Thankfully most LEOs show mercy under the right circumstances. That should not be the expectation.

I've posted in the thread above some images of a famous fictional law enforcement officer. Maybe you know the character. In the story, he spent decades hunting a man who had once committed a petty crime. He couldnt see the loving father, devout Christian, or pillar of the community ... only the escaped thief. Javert's compulsion to fulfill the letter of the law, without mercy or compassion, ultimately took his sanity and his life.

That was a long answer to your original question, the premise of which was flawed. Nobody "supports ILLEGAL immigration". Seriously, no one.

The short answer, which I write in the closing minutes of this Easter, is that justice can be mercy too.

I would say the numbers are probably similar of those who support illegal immigration as those who are "anti-immigrant". I don't think that number is zero though.

Total bullshit!

Deport all illegals without remorse and without prejudice, they all need to go! And build that wall...with motion sensor machineguns and/or the on-off electric fence someone else advocated.

Anything short of this IS supporting illegal immigration, no matter how you try to rationalize it. This is a serious matter, which will only get worse, MUCH WORSE! if we don't take steps now. Protection of the sovereignty of our nation, of our borders, trump () all laws, including running stop signs. Every nation has every right to defend itself. We use our military to kill many thousands when our nation is threatened. Yes, that law, the law of self-determination for any nation is greater than others.

You can TRY to sugarcoat it all you want but anything other than ZERO TOLERANCE for illegal immigration is support for it. Don't post BS like "no one supports illegal immigration" when you clearly do.

You regularly mention the machine guns, I hope that is an exaggeration or simply meant for deterrence. I don't think illegal immigration should be an instant death penalty. Hopefully no one does. Deporting people for staying in the country illegally is the proper response and would be justice. I agree with that. No one here illegally should expect to stay. I would be happy to find a way to allow people to stay and become citizens under the right conditions though.

[MoonPieBlue]

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/68366...e-data-tell-us

And for 2018 they're both probably 50/50 but in 2019 there were 978,000 apprehensions (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration).

Guess we need to address both. And are you also saying if there wasn't an impediment to someone walking across the border we wouldn't have a problem.

And I appreciate your posting a link one more time (-:. That's a thank you for the link above not a request for another.

[detltu]

You guys keep talking about border security, but most illegal immigrants were not illegal border crossers.

Really? 66% overstayed their visas. The links have been posted here ad nauseum.

It's just as big of a problem although it will require a different solution.

[dawg80]

I have a big problem with this honestly. It's true, but I think it should be much more serious than that. I guess by the same token deportation is just a slap on the wrist though.

True, but you do not have the right to move wherever you would like to escape evil or seek a better life. Particularly when there is an option of doing things legally versus illegally.

Certainly there are instances where the consequences of breaking the law are outweighed by the benefits. No one should expect to get away without facing those consequences though. Thankfully most LEOs show mercy under the right circumstances. That should not be the expectation.



I would say the numbers are probably similar of those who support illegal immigration as those who are "anti-immigrant". I don't think that number is zero though.

You regularly mention the machine guns, I hope that is an exaggeration or simply meant for deterrence. I don't think illegal immigration should be an instant death penalty. Hopefully no one does. Deporting people for staying in the country illegally is the proper response and would be justice. I agree with that. No one here illegally should expect to stay. I would be happy to find a way to allow people to stay and become citizens under the right conditions though.

What! you don't like my motion detector machineguns? Hmmm...we would put up a fence with warning signs, written in English. If someone is stupid enough to ignore the warning, climb the fence, and then get machinegunned down...well, I'm not sure how much that stupid person was going to contribute to our society anyway.

But someone else proposed an electric fence, that would be on, off, on, off, in irregular periods and no warnings at all. Illegals can just trust to luck that they can make a run for it and hit the fence when the power is off and that they can make it over before the power comes back on. Now, that would make a great video! If they guess right and make it...welcome to America! Now, this is not my idea, I stole it.

OR! they can avoid machineguns, electric fences, hungry crocs...etc...and just enter our country legally! Hey, that works!

[Guisslapp]

You know who like border walls? Communists.

[techman05]

You know who like border walls? Communists.

Aren’t their walls effective at keeping people in? How many people are clamoring to get into Cuba, Venezuela, Or No Ko?

[Guisslapp]

Aren’t their walls effective at keeping people in? How many people are clamoring to get into Cuba, Venezuela, Or No Ko?

China was trying to keep people out.

[techman05]

Was China communist when the Great Wall was constructed? Monarchy is not equal to communism of socialism.

[dawg80]

Was China communist when the Great Wall was constructed? Monarchy is not equal to communism of socialism.

Don't confuse Goosey with facts...like Biden, he's only interested in the "truth" and the facts be damned!

The Romans built Hadrian's Wall across England and it worked for some 400 years. Gave their garrisons a place to have the "high ground" against attacking tribes of Scots. The Great China Wall worked too...except the dynasties "on the good side" (line from Caddyshack) were often fighting among themselves and left long segments of the wall undefended, unmanned. The Mongols took advantage of that.

The new China Wall was built along the border with Hong Kong and up until 1997, it was manned by Chinese troops with machineguns pointing IN, to keep their oppressed citizens from trying to escape communism. No one in Hong Kong was interested in scaling the wall to get into commie China.